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Subject: Re: Read What KK Had to Say

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 18:06:21 05/21/05

Go up one level in this thread


On May 21, 2005 at 13:10:11, chandler yergin wrote:

>On May 21, 2005 at 03:41:19, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On May 21, 2005 at 03:13:00, chandler yergin wrote:
>>
>>>On May 20, 2005 at 20:42:14, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 19:50:00, chandler yergin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 18:42:57, Daniel Pineo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:45:37, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 20, 2005 at 03:21:34, jefkaan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2005 at 14:01:43, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>He certainly knows something of opening theory. He's a little passed 1.e4:o)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>that's fine in a anti-computer style.
>>>>>>>>but fundamentally 1.e4 is the best.
>>>>>>>>it might be a solution of chess.
>>>>>>>>but we wont know this of course until
>>>>>>>>the year 3000 or so(*)
>>>>>>>>best regards
>>>>>>>>jef
>>>>>>>>(*)yes chess also might be a draw; we don't know yet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do...it's a draw, and the proof is all around you in the chess world.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes Terry, again assertions, no Proof.
>>>>>How little you know.
>>>>>Proving once again.. you don't know!
>>>>>The 'evidence' is against your position!
>>>>>The facts are against your position!
>>>>>
>>>>>Based on 1,114,334 Games
>>>>>1-0   413,652 games  = 34%
>>>>>
>>>>>1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35%
>>>>>
>>>>>0-1 318,393 Games  or 28%
>>>>>
>>>>>You have NO argument or point!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And what might that proof be?
>>>>
>>>>I gave antidotal evidence, ie, one pawn up is 99% of the time a draw, there is
>>>>statistical evidence that chess is a draw...number wins losses and draws...etc.
>>>>
>>>>No way in hell can the first half move win...it's value falls with every
>>>>consective move played thereafter, barring any errors.
>>>>
>>>>Tell me Chan, do you know any GM's that would say chess isn't a draw?
>>>
>>>Yes, probably most of them.
>>
>>No, you wouldn't.
>>
>>>As long as there is the human element, a battle of wills and ideas, the game
>>>will continue to be Wins, Losses & Draws. Three possible outcomes, the
>>>Percentages are yet to be determined.
>>
>>We have a broad database on that. Karpov was pleased with the level of chess
>>today and the increasing level of draws.
>>
>>>
>>>>Besides, you beleive it to be a draw so what's your damn problem?!
>>>
>>>No, I don't believe it can be proven now or ever.
>>
>>
>>Don't be so certain.
>>
>>>The player that moves first has an advantage.
>>
>>Very small...it's worth at best 20 rating points.
>>It drops rapidly, after ten moves it is hardly apparent.
>>
>>>Whether this initiative can be nullified with perfect play can not be
>>>determined. Nor can perfect play ever be determined.
>>
>>Yeah, I've heard this how many times now? Too many!
>>
>>>You can speculate that with 'perfect' play on both sides it should be.
>>>That does not make it so. This is not Tic tac toe.
>>
>>Really? As if I hadn't noticed...and it's not relevent.
>>
>>>We can only list the millions of game that have been played since Chess
>>>was invented as a game, & review the results.
>>>We have done that.
>>
>>Yes, and it favours the draw Chan.
>>
>>Now for KK.
>>
>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?427154
>>
>>There is a way to statistically prove it which is not a mathematical proof of
>>course.
>
>What do you consider Statistics are if not mathmatical?
>Hmmm?
>
There's is a big difference between a mathmatical proof and statistics!

> What you do is look at results of matches between players of equal
>>caliber . You look at different calibers(ie:rating).You then measure the draw
>>results. You can also do it with different time control matches as well. If the
>>% of draws goes up constantly all the way to the top ratings, and if your sample
>>sizes are large enough then statistics would point to whether with perfect play
>>chess is a draw or not.
>
>No it won't.
>
>You cannot get a significant Sample Size!
> Your Basic Premise is wrong!
>
>
> You would be hard pressed to find any GM who thinks
>>chess is a win for white.
>>KK
>
> The Statistics speak for itself.
>
>Based on 1,114,334 Games
>1-0   413,652 games  = 34%
>1/2 1/2 381,463 games or 35%
>0-1 318,393 Games  or 28%
>These are Rated Games from the Total played.
>
>As long as Chess is played between humans there are only 3 possible outcomes
>Win Loss or Draw.
>
>There will always be a percentage of Draws among the Top Players.
>So what?
>It will never approach a significant Percentile.
>White always has the advantage.

Not enough of an advantage to win, you know that or at least you should know
that.

Let's leave it at that.



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