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Subject: Re: SEE for forward pruning in Q. Search

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:58:55 08/07/99

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On August 07, 1999 at 08:17:49, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On August 05, 1999 at 22:43:29, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 1999 at 17:13:28, Tom King wrote:
>>
>>>On August 04, 1999 at 20:00:49, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>[snip]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I find the following:
>>>>
>>>>using SEE to order captures in the q-search, without eliminating any, will
>>>>shrink the tree about 10% over using something simple like MVV/LVA.  But the
>>>>SEE code will likely cost you more than 10% (unless you are a bitmap program
>>>>where this can be done fairly efficiently).
>>>>
>>>>using SEE to eliminate losing captures can speed you up another 50%, or a factor
>>>>of two, which is very significant.  And no matter how slow your SEE code is,
>>>>that become a 'winner' of an idea.
>>>
>>>I'm seeing a big speedup - it's just the (possible) loss of accuracy which
>>>concerns me. Having said that, my Q search is pretty "quick and nasty" anyway,
>>>although I do still do things like probe the hash tables.
>>
>>
>>This is only my opinion, but I spend my time working on the full-width part of
>>the search (extensions, etc.).  The q-search already has _so many_ errors in it
>>(it is highly selective since throwing out everything but captures is a drastic
>>step, of course) that I don't trust it at all.  I just want it to handle simple
>>hung pieces and not much else...  I'll trust my extensions to find the deep
>>tactical tricks since then I won't be overlooking pins, forks, skewers, etc.
>>
>>When you think about it like that, shrink the q-search and use those nodes in
>>places where they are more useful.
>>
>>Just an opinion, of course...
>
>Right, my opinion is different. A good qsearch will give more accurate
>scores for leafs, so in a set of leafs X, for all leafs x in X we will have
>a more reliable score.
>
>So whatever plydepth we get, we will get a positional more trustworthy score,
>which with backtracking will result in a better and more reliable score.
>
>Greetings,
>Vincent


Most searches have three parts:  (1)full width to depth=N; (2) highly selective
until a terminal position is reached;  (3) static evaluation.

I tend to put my faith in (1)... you want to put yours in (2).  I think it is
nothing more than a tradeoff...  If your (2) is a lot bigger than mine (and it
is if you do checks/out-of-check moves there) then your (1) is smaller than
mine.  In some positions, you will do better.  In others, I will do better.

The real question is, in real games, which works better?  The jury is still
out, but not doing checks is not getting me killed...  I did checks in the
q-search many versions ago.  I'm going to test them again pretty soon.  But
the real question is which plays better?

I don't think that is anywhere near a "resolved issue"...



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