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Subject: Re: The trouble with the society we build

Author: KarinsDad

Date: 18:27:49 02/07/00

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On February 07, 2000 at 19:40:57, Thorsten Czub wrote:

>On February 07, 2000 at 17:47:07, KarinsDad wrote:
>
>>You are entitled to your opinion.
>>
>>But one point: Chris has repeatedly called me a liar about my chess program and
>>my techniques which on the surface sounds extremely similar to his.
>
>
>has he, really. i don't remember.
>you make a mistake. you do not differenciate between people and words.
>words and discussions have the reason to
>attack each other. people should not attack each other.


Agreed. So why does he do it? And I am not attacking him with this question. I
would really like to know what motivates him to be abusive to others.


>
>so when people call each other assholes or liars or whatever evil thing,
>you should not take this personal, since the words criticize a point of view,
>but not the fact that the other guy is a human beeing.


I made an agreement when I signed up. So did all of us. I try to stick by the
agreement. For some people, those words of agreement are only words. They mean
nothing.


>
>e.g. i am often named that i am against chessbase or frederic friedel.
>this is not true if you name it that shallow.
>
>i am and was against how chessbase operates, how their methods are,
>and how frederic uses his intelligence and power he has with
>his computer-schach and spiele to misinform the people and to manipulate.
>so i am not against the people. not against the company itself.
>but against the methods !
>this is IMO a big difference.


Fair enough.


>
>when i see frederic i don't have to kill him. or when i say chessbase
>doing something right (from my point of view) i don't have to attack them.
>only if they do something that is against my point of view.


Did you perceive my post (above) as an attack against Chris?


>than i would have to "bite".
>if no somebody identifies much with what he says and does all day long,
>it can happen of course that he feels personally insulted by me.
>so the problem is that he does not differenciate between words and actions
>of people and the people themselves.
>
>frederic e.g. could come and ask me: what do you have against me ?
>what do do you have against my company, against my magazin ?
>
>and this because he identifies with his things.
>
>but if he would not misuse his magazine , and if chessbase would be fairer
>towards their concurrent-companies, i would not attack them.
>
>if bill gates would not like to kill all other companies , and work out
>mafia-methods, i would not call him bad words.
>
>but - the person bill gates, i have no idea if he is nice or not.
>i don't care. i do attack what he says and what his actions are.
>not him as a person.
>
>
>> Why is this?
>
>ask him ! i have no idea.


I have asked him. He has blown me off.


>
>
>>If anyone is against the ideas of others, it is Chris. Even (or maybe
>>especially) when those ideas are similar to his own.
>
>you seem to mix up having a different point of view and beeing against
>YOU.
>i do often have a different point of view than chris, but i am not against
>chris. you see the difference.


Yes, I see it quite clearly. I am not against Chris either. I am against some of
his actions. I asked him two weeks ago to sign up under his own name and post
responsibly. He blew me off and then told the forum yesterday that I lied about
it. I would not have asked him to sign up if I did not think he could
contribute.


>
>
>>It is easy to shout that one is persecuted and that there are in and out crowds,
>>but it is hard to make people believe it when at the same time, one persecutes
>>others.
>
>right. but why do so many people take anything personal.


I think it is human nature. I think I have a thicker skin concerning myself than
I do others, but I too "retaliate" when I see one person being abusive to
another here on the forum. I do not like it and I do not think it should be
allowed.


>
>when i say something against coca-cola or mc_donalds, do i really say something
>against bruce moreland ????? isn't bruce moreland so much more
>(for computerchess) than coca-cola ? or mc_donalds ?
>i thought he is. and i thought he would understand that this is not against
>him.
>
>
>>Food for thought.
>
>yes.
>


In some ways, I think we agree more than we disagree.

KarinsDda :)



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