Author: Aaron Gordon
Date: 23:37:36 04/09/03
Go up one level in this thread
On April 09, 2003 at 23:08:15, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On April 09, 2003 at 20:17:14, Aaron Gordon wrote: > >>On April 09, 2003 at 18:01:50, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On April 09, 2003 at 15:36:58, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>> >>>>On April 09, 2003 at 12:14:37, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 11:04:51, Aaron Gordon wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 09:24:01, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 00:46:15, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 00:34:10, Pavel Blokhine wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On April 09, 2003 at 00:17:16, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On April 08, 2003 at 23:53:06, Charles Worthington wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On April 08, 2003 at 23:41:44, Pavel Blokhine wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>I am looking to buy a new computer. I will be using it for many things, but >>>>>>>>>>>>mostly for computer video games and chess online. So what computer would be >>>>>>>>>>>>best? TheMicro Express MicroFlex 27A Powered by AMD's 2.17-GHz Athlon XP 2700+ >>>>>>>>>>>>processor and 512MB of DDR400 SDRAM, the MicroFlex 27A earned a blistering score >>>>>>>>>>>>of 130 on PC WorldBench 4 tests, for $2254 or a Dell Dimension 8250• 3.06-GHz >>>>>>>>>>>>Pentium 4 processor• 200GB hard drive• 18-inch LCD monitor• 128MB ATI Radeon >>>>>>>>>>>>9700 Pro graphics• 16X DVD-ROM drive, DVD+RW/+R drive at $3158? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>If video games and chess are your main uses for the machine I would think the >>>>>>>>>>>AMD would be the better choice...especially for the money....I own a dimension >>>>>>>>>>>8250 and while it surely performs well it was hardly worth the additional cost >>>>>>>>>>>were i to only use it for chess. But in the end it really is just a question of >>>>>>>>>>>personal preference. If both companies offer comparable service and support then >>>>>>>>>>>its really a toss of the coin. >>>>>>>>>>>Charles >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>P.S. The decision will also depend on what you plan for the machine in the >>>>>>>>>>future. If you want to upgrade to a faster cpu later on or overclock your >>>>>>>>>>current one then the AMD is the only option for you. Dell boards do not support >>>>>>>>>>overclocking and Intel is notorious for often changing the socket on their cpus. >>>>>>>>>>So you can pretty much rule out upgrading the Dell at all without >>>>>>>>>>some_major_expense. Speed wise you are not going to see a huge world of >>>>>>>>>>differece between the two machines. Assuming no overclocking you will get close >>>>>>>>>>to 1200 kNs running fritz 8 on either. The hyperthreading will give you a 10 to >>>>>>>>>>12% boost with the intel running Deep Fritz 7 but the strength difference is >>>>>>>>>>negligible. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Charles >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks. But how do i overclock an AMD and is it safe? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Well, I am not an expert in overclocking but for mild overclocking, where no >>>>>>>>additional cooling is required, i think you can just bump the cpu clock speed up >>>>>>>>in bios say 10% or so safely (my figure may be inaccuarate). You may have >>>>>>>>configure a jumper or two on the system board as well I am not certain about the >>>>>>>>design of these boards. Aaron Gordon would be the one to pose this question to >>>>>>>>as he has extensive knowledge of these boards and overclocking techniques. Sorry >>>>>>>>I couldn't be more help. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Charles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The same also applies to the dual 3.06 xeon system you emailed me the specs to >>>>>>>as we have already discussed above. The xeon systems have decreased in price a >>>>>>>bit though. For chess I would recommend a minimum of 1GB of RAM and 2 would be >>>>>>>even better but like all things related to the computer it is a matter of what >>>>>>>you can afford to sink into one. Dell's business machines are more flexible as >>>>>>>far as upgradability than their residential machines however they still cannot >>>>>>>be clocked up. My machine is automatically upgraded each time a newer or faster >>>>>>>part comes out as per my contract with Dell. The day after the part is released >>>>>>>a technician comes to install it. This contract includes motherboards, cpu's, >>>>>>>and memory only. As far as overclocking goes there is little need to overclock a >>>>>>>high end AMD or Xeon dual. They are both quite fast as it is and with the upper >>>>>>>end cpu's if you try anything more than mild overclocking you will need >>>>>>>additional cooling because these cpu's are already clocked close to the upper >>>>>>>end of what the engineers say is the limit of the part. Taking a 2 GHZ part to >>>>>>>2.5 GHz is much simpler than taking a 3GHz part to 3.5GHz. Like I said earlier >>>>>>>though, these are questions best left to Aaron Gordon or one of the guys here >>>>>>>who specialize in overclocking. Personally, with the current advances in cpu >>>>>>>technology i think overclocking the high end parts is a bit silly when there are >>>>>>>faster and faster cpu's coming to market constantly. Why take the risk when it >>>>>>>isn't needed? Most overclocking is done on the lower end chips to bring them up >>>>>>>to where the higher end chips are without putting out the expense for the high >>>>>>>end one. I think Aaron would agree that overclocking a high end chip past it's >>>>>>>safety margin would be unwise. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Sincerely, Charles >>>>>> >>>>>>Overclocking a high-end chip is fine as long as you know what you're doing. Also >>>>>>as long as you run stability tests to ensure whatever cpu you're overclocking is >>>>>>completely stable it doesn't matter if you're overclocking an AthlonXP 3000+ or >>>>>>a 386SX-16MHz. Stable is stable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_IF_ it is verified. This is not easy. It means you have to run a program that >>>>>specifically >>>>>tests "edge conditions" by running sliding 1 patterns thru every instruction, to >>>>>see if there is >>>>>any unexpected cross-talk at higher frequencies, etc. >>>>> >>>>>Just because it runs some application correctly, does _not_ mean it will run >>>>>_all_ applications >>>>>correctly. >>>> >>>>With all of the tests on my box that I've done I'd be willing to put money down >>>>that it is 100% stable. I'll put up a linux shell to that particular box and you >>>>can try everything in your power to crash it via cpu/memory/chipset/etc >>>>instabilities, it's just not going to happen. >>> >>> >>>You could be right. But then, does the _average_ overclocker do that much >>>testing? >>> >>>Nope... >> >> >>Well, every overclocker I know runs either burnk7 or prime95. Both of which will >>knock your box down QUICK if there are any instabilities. There are sets of >>tests people run. Usually it's Prime95/Burnk7 for the CPU, memtest86 for the >>memory and hours of 3DMark2001SE for videocard testing (when overclocking the >>videocard or AGP bus). >> >>Current Nforce2 boards allow you to lock the PCI and AGP at default speeds so >>you don't have to worry about pushing your videocard and PCI devices beyond >>specs. Thats something I really don't like doing, but have done it in the past >>because it was necessarry to get higher bus speeds. >> >>Most people just going from say 2400+ to 2600+ really won't need much testing, >>the chips can do a little bit without hardly any risk of instabilities. It's >>just when you start pushing far above the manufacturers top cpu is when you need >>the extreme testing. Mainly hardcore overclockers do this and they run the same >>tests I do. > > >I'm not going to comment on those programs. However, they very likely do _not_ >represent the worst case for catching problems such as slightly long gate >delays, or cross-coupling on traces, or instabilities at certain clock speeds. > >It's non-trivial and requires specific testing rigors. A prime number tester >is serendipitous at best. It almost certainly doesn't execute all instructions, >which is a problem... Not to mention all instructions with specific "tough" >bit patterns (many adjacent 1 bits, many adjacent 0 bits, sliding 0101/etc >patterns... etc.) Knock it all you want, there's no way you'll crash my box though. ;)
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.