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Subject: Re: Ooops

Author: Tom Kerrigan

Date: 10:40:19 06/17/03

Go up one level in this thread


On June 17, 2003 at 13:15:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On June 16, 2003 at 23:46:15, Keith Evans wrote:
>
>>On June 16, 2003 at 23:23:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On June 16, 2003 at 02:50:49, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 14, 2003 at 18:00:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 13, 2003 at 12:03:58, Michael Vox wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.clubkasparov.ru/521772350.html?462691585533321
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One could argue chess endgame tablebases play the endgame like god, but not this
>>>>>>article....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Enjoy :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The author is an idiot.
>>>>>
>>>>>a 5 piece endgame _counts_ the two kings.  He is not counting them.
>>>>>
>>>>>He really thinks he is probing what we would call a 7 piece ending, which
>>>>>is _years_ away from reality.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At no point in the article does he ever do as you allege. He always counts the
>>>>pieces correctly.
>>>>
>>>>We all make mistakes, but I don't think we should therefore brand all of
>>>>ourselves "idiots". Do you? He is a GM after all, so don't you think you calling
>>>>him an "idiot" a little extreme?
>>>
>>>
>>>Perhaps "computer chess idiot" would have been better?
>>>
>>>His entire article is based on incorrect information.
>>>
>>>A 5 piece position is _always_ played perfectly by a program.  But when there
>>>are more than 5 pieces on the board, perfection goes away even when probing
>>>5 piece tables after captures.
>>>
>>>In his text, I get the impression he is saying position two should be played
>>>perfectly.  Yet it has _seven_ pieces on the board.  Tables work miracles,
>>>but they don't make the impossible possible, yet...
>>
>>Nevertheless for position 1, after 1.Bd1 Kg8 2.h7+ Kxh7 3.h6 Kg8 4.h7+ Kxh7 5.h5
>>Kg8 6.h6 Kh8 7.h7 Kxh7 there are only _five_ chessmen on the board. So if he has
>>tablebases enabled, then what _should_ the engines return? I don't have 5-men
>>tablebases available, so I don't know. Is his analysis incorrect, or is he
>>pointing out a bug or setup problem with Junior and Fritz?
>
>The problem is this:  If the position _starts_ off with 5 pieces, it will
>play _perfectly_.   If it starts off with more, it might not.  IE it might

I don't know why this conversation is still going on. Bob, you're being an
idiot. The position in the diagram has 8 pieces, right? Then there's the
comment:

"It's funny that even if we sweep away three white pawns, both engines evaluate
White's position as winning."

Bob, can you please tell the audience what 8 - 3 is?

-Tom



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