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Subject: Re: Neverending story with incomplete tablebases

Author: Robin Smith

Date: 14:50:28 08/15/03

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On August 14, 2003 at 02:51:36, Johan de Koning wrote:

>On August 13, 2003 at 17:53:30, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>
>>On August 13, 2003 at 03:00:10, Johan de Koning wrote:
>>
>>>On August 10, 2003 at 13:57:00, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>The log doesn't show what J8 was thinking. Apparently it thought it was mating ,
>>>>because it played all moves in 0 seconds.
>>>
>>>Yet another good reason to clear out the TT at the start of every search!
>>>:-)
>>
>>Or to use the time to find a shorter mate, even when seeing a mate already.
>
>Indeed, but that didn't suit my point. :-)
>
>>What are the other good reasons for clearing TTs?
>
>1. Predictability
>   IMHO an engine should just search when a search is needed.
>   After all it is a tool, not a living creature.
>2. Reproducibility
>   Playing and watching games is the best way to spot funny behaviour.
>   Not being able to find the cause of this behaviour is pretty frustrating and
>   may leave unintended features unnoticed.
>3. Complexity
>   Sticky TT requires more data and more code (= more bugs).
>   Complexity is not a big deal once you've got it right and you're not ever
>   going to (want to) change things. But that's theory.
>4. Preprocessor
>   A change of the root position might render all TT entries invalid.
>   Though preprocessing is not as important as it was in the 1980s, I bet most
>   engines compile at least wood and placement tables based on the game stage
>   of the root position.
>5. Pondering
>   If an engine has pondered the wrong move, the TT will be overwritten with
>   positions that are either useless or have the wrong bound.
>6. Time management
>   Admittedly implementation dependent, but the stability of the root (drops,
>   move changes) is useful infomation. The time manager may get confused if
>   this information is lost.
>7. Unforeseen problems
>   Eg the perpetual mate that started this thread. Rather funny actually, if it
>   happens to someone elses engine. But more importantly, rather instructive.
>   Besides the infamous incomplete-EGDB-problem we now have the infamous
>   incomplete-TT-problem. :-)
>
>... Johan

Johan,

For someone who uses chess engines to do analysis, rather than just playing
games, clearing Ttables is a serious flaw.

Robin



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