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Subject: Re: Neverending story with incomplete tablebases

Author: Johan de Koning

Date: 01:47:34 08/16/03

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On August 15, 2003 at 17:50:28, Robin Smith wrote:

>On August 14, 2003 at 02:51:36, Johan de Koning wrote:
>
>>On August 13, 2003 at 17:53:30, Dieter Buerssner wrote:
>>
>>>On August 13, 2003 at 03:00:10, Johan de Koning wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 10, 2003 at 13:57:00, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>>The log doesn't show what J8 was thinking. Apparently it thought it was mating ,
>>>>>because it played all moves in 0 seconds.
>>>>
>>>>Yet another good reason to clear out the TT at the start of every search!
>>>>:-)
>>>
>>>Or to use the time to find a shorter mate, even when seeing a mate already.
>>
>>Indeed, but that didn't suit my point. :-)
>>
>>>What are the other good reasons for clearing TTs?
>>
>>1. Predictability
>>   IMHO an engine should just search when a search is needed.
>>   After all it is a tool, not a living creature.
>>2. Reproducibility
>>   Playing and watching games is the best way to spot funny behaviour.
>>   Not being able to find the cause of this behaviour is pretty frustrating and
>>   may leave unintended features unnoticed.
>>3. Complexity
>>   Sticky TT requires more data and more code (= more bugs).
>>   Complexity is not a big deal once you've got it right and you're not ever
>>   going to (want to) change things. But that's theory.
>>4. Preprocessor
>>   A change of the root position might render all TT entries invalid.
>>   Though preprocessing is not as important as it was in the 1980s, I bet most
>>   engines compile at least wood and placement tables based on the game stage
>>   of the root position.
>>5. Pondering
>>   If an engine has pondered the wrong move, the TT will be overwritten with
>>   positions that are either useless or have the wrong bound.
>>6. Time management
>>   Admittedly implementation dependent, but the stability of the root (drops,
>>   move changes) is useful infomation. The time manager may get confused if
>>   this information is lost.
>>7. Unforeseen problems
>>   Eg the perpetual mate that started this thread. Rather funny actually, if it
>>   happens to someone elses engine. But more importantly, rather instructive.
>>   Besides the infamous incomplete-EGDB-problem we now have the infamous
>>   incomplete-TT-problem. :-)
>>
>>... Johan
>
>Johan,
>
>For someone who uses chess engines to do analysis, rather than just playing
>games, clearing Ttables is a serious flaw.

Remembering partial analysises randomly is also a serious flaw.
User control is the keyword I think.

... Johan



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