Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 11:32:01 03/24/04
Go up one level in this thread
On March 24, 2004 at 02:11:34, Uri Blass wrote: >On March 23, 2004 at 21:28:14, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On March 23, 2004 at 18:18:51, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On March 23, 2004 at 17:28:17, martin fierz wrote: >>> >>>>On March 23, 2004 at 17:13:46, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 23, 2004 at 16:40:46, Renze Steenhuisen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On March 23, 2004 at 16:38:28, Aivaras Juzvikas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>forgot to mention, i dont try null move on 0 ply >>>>>> >>>>>>Than what's your test set? >>>>> >>>>>test set?i just let two versions of my engine play each other a couple of 15 0 >>>>>games, the result is either a draw or a win for the one w/o null move, even tho >>>>>it searches deeper as i already mentioned >>>> >>>>"a couple" meaning...? >>>> >>>>if it's two games, forget it. if it's 10 games, forget it too. start believing >>>>it when it's 100 games... >>> >>>I think that if you do not get improvement with null move based on 10 games then >>>there is good chance that you have a bug in the implementation. >> >>Null move, implemented incorrectly, can make the program play much weaker most >>of the time but even much better some of the time. >> >>Suppose (for instance) that R=4/6 is selected instead of 2/3 by some accident. > > >It means that it is not implemented correctly. >In the relevant case I understood that R=2 was used. > >>After ten games, it might look very good because of random chance. But 100 >>games would show that it was bad. >> >>I would never believe any result of less than 30 games can be trusted. > >I do not suggest to trust result of 10 games to decide if there is an >improvement. > >I only say that there is a good reason to believe that there is a problem in the >implementation after seeing bad result in 10 games. > >I do not claim that you can be sure about it but the question is what to do >next(play more games or look at the code to see if there is some problem in the >code). The point I was making is that it might look better, even though it is really much worse. Especially with a thing like null move, some positions would benefit greatly from massive pruning, but others would miss very important variations. So if after ten games you see 10-0, you might decide it is a great improvement and even tweak something else. That would be a mistake.
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