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Subject: Re: c,c++5,c#.

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 00:28:58 08/12/04

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On August 11, 2004 at 17:25:14, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On August 11, 2004 at 14:36:50, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On August 11, 2004 at 11:54:44, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:43:18, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 11, 2004 at 09:42:04, gerold daniels wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>what is the best to program a chess game in. c.c++,c#. which is the easy one to
>>>>>learn and the best to program in.
>>>>
>>>>I predict you will get at least 4 different answers. ;)
>>>
>>>Here we go with one of them:
>>>
>>>For writing a chess engine you cannot expect to get a reasonably fast thing
>>>without using C/C++. And when using C++ try to avoid some expensive features of
>>>the language. Quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>
>>>"Object-oriented programming is an exceptionally bad idea which could only have
>>>originated in California."
>>>
>>>Of course I disagree with that, as there are many benefiots in OOP. But still,
>>>there is something in what he says :)
>>>
>>>If you are looking for easier languages (especially for building graphical user
>>>interfaces), Java and C# are reasonable options. Java has the advantage that it
>>>can run on any platform and is used by many major-league companies. On the other
>>>hand .NET framework will already be present in Longhorn Windows, which will ease
>>>the distribution of your programs. But at the moment, I would recommend Java
>>>over C#.
>>>
>>>Finally, unlike Jose, I would recommend you to stay away from Visual Basic, or
>>>any other thing that has the word BASIC in it. Again quoting Edsger Dijkstra:
>>>
>>>"It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have
>>>had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally
>>>mutilated beyond hope of regeneration."
>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>"Teaching BASIC should be a criminal offense."
>>>
>>>Visual Basic is a very advanced language in comparison to the primitive BASIC,
>>>but still it does mentally mutilate you :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sargon
>>
>>  That might be the reason why I'm mentally mutilated, as I first learnt BASIC
>>for the Amstrad (some centuries ago).
>
>I first learned BASIC too (actually QBASIC). And when I moved to C, my first
>programs were full of "goto". It took me some time to abandon such unhealthy
>BASIC habits.
>
>Nowadays Visual Basic is chosen for simplicity. But if my 13 years old sister
>could learn C with rather ease, then everyone can. The problem with C/C++ is
>that they don't provide an easy way for creating GUI (unlike Java, C#, Visual
>Basic, etc). That is the only advantage of Visual Basic over C for beginners.

I have been playing with Visual C 2005 beta, and this argument isn't true
anymore. They copied the whole forms idea from Delphi.

I always picked Delphi because it's the only fast language that can also easily
create a userinterface, but with the new Visual C this argument doesn't even
hold anymore.

Tony

>
>
>
>>  But from my mutilated perspective, learning process takes place from simple to
>>difficult. Kids don't learn advanced mathematics before they learn to add and
>>substract. Learning function calls and recursion and strings with an intuitive
>>and friendly language like VB can't hurt IMO. Note that old BASIC was not
>>friendly and intuitive, and I wouldn't recommend it, but VB is really easy.
>>  But I admit I'm not a teacher, and your experience is much more relevant than
>>mine.
>>  The fact is that I can now program C, C++, Java, VB, BASIC, assembly, LISP,
>>PROLOG, SQL, Delphi... and I don't feel the order in which I learnt them put
>>extra difficulties in the learning process.
>>
>>  José C.



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