Author: enrico carrisco
Date: 20:23:14 11/20/05
Go up one level in this thread
On November 20, 2005 at 23:03:44, A. Steen wrote:
>On November 20, 2005 at 22:42:02, enrico carrisco wrote:
>
>>Let's take a simple KRK ending...
>>
>>[D]8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Now let's run it through some of our favorite new and old engines without using
>>any egtb's... (i.e. engine's knowledge of the ending only.)
>>
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 9:
>>
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rd6
>> +- (6.50) Depth: 7/12 00:00:00 31kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7
>> +- (6.50) Depth: 8/14 00:00:00 77kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Re6
>> +- (6.50) Depth: 9/16 00:00:00 191kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (6.81) Depth: 10/16 00:00:00 332kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 11/18 00:00:00 649kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>> +- (6.94) Depth: 12/20 00:00:00 1060kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (#12) Depth: 13/24 00:00:00 1424kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (#12) Depth: 13/24 00:00:00 1911kN
>>----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>>
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (5.59) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3--
>> +- (5.22) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (5.22) Depth: 2/3 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>> +- (5.28) Depth: 3/4 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6
>> +- (5.28) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
>>1.Kf3!
>> +- (5.47) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
>>1.Kf3 Kb6
>> +- (5.59) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00 1kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rd5
>> +- (5.53) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00 2kN
>>1.Kf3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7
>> +- (5.59) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 8kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (5.66) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 14kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rd6
>> +- (5.66) Depth: 7/12 00:00:00 21kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7
>> +- (5.66) Depth: 8/13 00:00:00 57kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Kf4 Kc6 4.Ke5
>> +- (5.66) Depth: 9/14 00:00:00 150kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (5.97) Depth: 10/16 00:00:00 306kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kb7
>> +- (6.03) Depth: 11/16 00:00:00 532kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5
>> +- (6.03) Depth: 12/20 00:00:00 828kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kb8
>> +- (6.09) Depth: 13/20 00:00:00 1240kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd5 Kb7
>> +- (6.16) Depth: 14/22 00:00:00 1880kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (#16) Depth: 15/20 00:00:00 2293kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4
>> +- (#12) Depth: 15/23 00:00:00 3022kN
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Deep Junior 9:
>>
>>1.Rd1 Kc6
>> +- (3.97) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (4.14) Depth: 3 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>> +- (4.27) Depth: 6 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5
>> +- (4.27) Depth: 9 00:00:00 1kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5
>> +- (4.34) Depth: 9 00:00:00 5kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6
>> +- (4.28) Depth: 12 00:00:00 12kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7
>> +- (4.35) Depth: 15 00:00:00 62kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke4 Kc7
>> +- (4.35) Depth: 18 00:00:00 306kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Ka7
>> +- (4.39) Depth: 18 00:00:00 306kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Kf5 Kb6
>> +- (4.35) Depth: 21 00:00:00 1526kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kb5 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>> +- (4.40) Depth: 24 00:00:01 5080kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kb5 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kc8 7.Kd6 Kb8 8.Rc7 Ka8
>> +- (4.56) Depth: 27 00:00:03 9729kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (4.86) Depth: 30 00:00:04 13212kN
>>1.Ke3!
>> +- (5.16) Depth: 33 00:00:07 21330kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka7 8.Kc7
>>Ka8 9.Ra5#
>> +- (#9) Depth: 33 00:00:09 27773kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka7 8.Kc7
>>Ka8 9.Ra5#
>> +- (#9) Depth: 33 00:00:09 28319kN
>>----------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Chess Tiger 14.0:
>>
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 12 00:00:00 819kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6
>> +- (6.92) Depth: 13 00:00:00 1063kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7
>> +- (6.92) Depth: 14 00:00:01 2096kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Kc7
>> +- (6.92) Depth: 15 00:00:03 5819kN
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (7.82) Depth: 16 00:00:09 18599kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6
>> +- (7.82) Depth: 17 00:00:11 21686kN
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (8.72) Depth: 17 00:00:11 21690kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kc5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Ra5+ Kb8
>>9.Ra4 Kc8
>> +- (#10) Depth: 17 00:00:19 36301kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rd6+ Kb7 5.Kc5 Kc7 6.Rd5 Kb7 7.Rd7+ Ka6 8.Re7
>>Ka5 9.Ra7#
>> +- (#9) Depth: 18 00:00:41 76529kN
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Chess Tiger 15.0:
>>
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (6.56) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (6.40) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (6.40) Depth: 2 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>> +- (6.44) Depth: 3 00:00:00 1kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5
>> +- (6.56) Depth: 3 00:00:00 2kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6
>> +- (6.56) Depth: 4 00:00:00 2kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rc3
>> +- (6.60) Depth: 5 00:00:00 3kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Rc5 Kb6 3.Rc3 Kb5
>> +- (6.60) Depth: 6 00:00:00 5kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8
>> +- (6.64) Depth: 7 00:00:00 8kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8 Kc7
>> +- (6.64) Depth: 8 00:00:00 15kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Rd8 Kc7 5.Ra8
>> +- (6.64) Depth: 9 00:00:00 29kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb6 6.Kd6
>> +- (6.68) Depth: 10 00:00:00 46kN
>>1.Kf3 Kb7 2.Ke4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rc5+ Kb7 6.Kd6 Kb6
>> +- (6.68) Depth: 11 00:00:00 82kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 11 00:00:00 103kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rc8
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 12 00:00:00 191kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 13 00:00:00 352kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb8
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 14 00:00:00 745kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb6 Ka5
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 15 00:00:00 1519kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6 Kb7 5.Rb5+ Ka6 6.Rb8 Ka5 7.Rb7 Ka4 8.Rb6 Ka5
>>9.Rb8
>> +- (6.88) Depth: 16 00:00:01 3170kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>>9.Kc7
>> +- (7.78) Depth: 17 00:00:02 5433kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>>9.Kc7
>> +- (#10) Depth: 17 00:00:02 5522kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>>9.Kc7
>> +- (#10) Depth: 18 00:00:02 6068kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rb5 Ka7 6.Kd5 Ka6 7.Kc6 Ka7 8.Rc5 Ka6
>>9.Kc7
>> +- (#10) Depth: 19 00:00:02 6071kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Ka6 5.Rc6+ Ka7 6.Kb5 Kb8 7.Kb6 Ka8 8.Rc8#
>> +- (#8) Depth: 20 00:00:20 42340kN
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Shredder 9:
>>
>>1.Rb5
>> +- (7.07) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
>>1.Rb5 Kd6
>> +- (7.02) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (7.08) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (7.08) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4
>> +- (7.12) Depth: 3/4 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb7
>> +- (7.23) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5
>> +- (7.28) Depth: 5/6 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kb7
>> +- (7.32) Depth: 6/8 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kb6 4.Kd6
>> +- (7.33) Depth: 7/8 00:00:00 3kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kb7
>> +- (7.32) Depth: 8/12 00:00:00 6kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Ka4
>> +- (7.43) Depth: 9/12 00:00:00 10kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Kb3 6.Ra6
>> +- (7.46) Depth: 10/15 00:00:00 16kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Kd5 Kb4 5.Rc6 Kb3 6.Rc4 Kb2
>> +- (7.48) Depth: 11/14 00:00:00 24kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Rc8 Ka7 6.Rc6 Kb7
>> +- (7.60) Depth: 12/18 00:00:00 38kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+
>> +- (7.74) Depth: 13/17 00:00:00 99kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+
>> +- (7.89) Depth: 14/21 00:00:00 151kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (8.14) Depth: 15/18 00:00:00 212kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (#150) Depth: 15/18 00:00:00 213kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 15/20 00:00:00 255kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 16/24 00:00:00 331kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 17/24 00:00:00 457kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 18/26 00:00:00 711kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kc8 3.Rd6 Kb8 4.Kc5 Kb7 5.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 19/26 00:00:01 1250kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Kd5 Kb6 5.Kd6 Kb7 6.Rb5+ Kc8 7.Rd5
>> +- (#150) Depth: 20/28 00:00:01 2237kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+ Ka6 8.Kc5
>> +- (#12) Depth: 21/30 00:00:03 3996kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+
>> +- (#12) Depth: 22/30 00:00:04 5651kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Ka6 4.Kd5 Kb7 5.Kd6 Kb6 6.Rh5 Kb7 7.Rb5+
>> +- (#12) Depth: 23/32 00:00:07 10314kN
>>---------------------------------------------------
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Hiarcs 8:
>>
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (17.38) Depth: 1 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (17.20) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00
>>1.Rd4 Kc6
>> +- (17.28) Depth: 2/7 00:00:00
>>1.Rd4 Kc6 2.Ke3
>> +- (17.16) Depth: 3/7 00:00:00
>>1.Rd4 Kb6 2.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (17.34) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb7
>> +- (17.41) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6
>> +- (17.56) Depth: 4/9 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4
>> +- (17.44) Depth: 5/9 00:00:00 3kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4
>> +- (17.59) Depth: 6/11 00:00:00 11kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Kd3 Kb6 4.Kc4 Kc7
>> +- (17.59) Depth: 7/13 00:00:00 26kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb6 4.Rc5 Kb7
>> +- (17.75) Depth: 8/15 00:00:00 74kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Kd4 Kb6 5.Rc5
>> +- (17.75) Depth: 9/15 00:00:00 175kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6
>> +- (18.00) Depth: 10/19 00:00:00 331kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (18.00) Depth: 10/19 00:00:00 410kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rh6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4 6.Kc4 Ka5 7.Rb5+ Ka4
>> +- (18.06) Depth: 11/19 00:00:00 690kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rh6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4 6.Kc4 Ka3 7.Rb4 Ka2
>> +- (18.13) Depth: 12/21 00:00:01 1242kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4 Kc6 4.Rd2 Kb6 5.Rd6+ Kb7 6.Kc5 Kb8 7.Kc6 Kc8
>> +- (18.19) Depth: 13/23 00:00:01 2168kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb7 2.Kd3 Kb8 3.Rc5 Ka8 4.Rb5 Ka7 5.Kd4 Ka6 6.Kc4
>> +- (#19) Depth: 14/23 00:00:02 3181kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4
>> +- (#13) Depth: 14/23 00:00:02 3612kN
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Goliath Light 1.5:
>>
>>1.Kf3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>> +- (7.59) Depth: 6/7 00:00:00
>>1.Kf3 Kb6 2.Ke4 Kc6
>> +- (7.59) Depth: 6/7 00:00:00 2kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7
>> +- (7.63) Depth: 6/9 00:00:00 5kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7
>> +- (7.63) Depth: 7/9 00:00:00 7kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4
>> +- (7.66) Depth: 7/9 00:00:00 9kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4
>> +- (7.66) Depth: 8/9 00:00:00 24kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4 Kc6
>> +- (7.59) Depth: 8/9 00:00:00 29kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kf3 Kc7 3.Ke4 Kc6
>> +- (7.59) Depth: 9/11 00:00:00 64kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kc7 4.Kc5
>> +- (7.69) Depth: 9/11 00:00:00 79kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kc7 4.Kc5
>> +- (7.69) Depth: 10/13 00:00:00 172kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7
>> +- (7.69) Depth: 10/13 00:00:00 202kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Kc5 Kc7
>> +- (7.69) Depth: 11/14 00:00:00 379kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kd5
>> +- (7.79) Depth: 11/15 00:00:00 452kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kd5
>> +- (7.79) Depth: 12/15 00:00:00 747kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kc4 Kb6 7.Kd4
>> +- (7.79) Depth: 12/16 00:00:00 889kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rc5 Kb6 5.Kd4 Kb7 6.Kc4 Kb6 7.Kd4
>> +- (7.79) Depth: 13/17 00:00:00 1305kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>> +- (7.91) Depth: 13/17 00:00:00 1520kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>> +- (7.91) Depth: 14/19 00:00:00 2105kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>> +- (7.94) Depth: 14/19 00:00:00 2438kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+
>> +- (7.94) Depth: 15/21 00:00:00 3272kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kb8 7.Kb5 Kc8 8.Kc6 Kb8
>>9.Rd5 Kc8 10.Rd6
>> +- (7.99) Depth: 15/21 00:00:01 3830kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7 6.Rd7+ Kb8 7.Kb5 Kc8 8.Kc6 Kb8
>>9.Rd5 Kc8 10.Rd6
>> +- (7.99) Depth: 16/22 00:00:01 4950kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>> +- (7.99) Depth: 16/22 00:00:05 21858kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>> +- (7.99) Depth: 17/23 00:00:06 23409kN
>>1.Ke3 Kb6 2.Kd4 Kc6 3.Kc4 Kb7 4.Rd6 Kc7 5.Kc5 Kb7
>> +- (#30) Depth: 17/23 00:00:06 23423kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Kc4 Kc6 4.Rd4 Kb6 5.Rd6+ Kb7 6.Kb5 Kc7 7.Kc5 Kb7 8.Rd7+
>>Kb8 9.Kb5 Kc8 10.Kc6 Kb8 11.Kb6 Kc8 12.Rd5 Kb8 13.Rd8#
>> +- (#12) Depth: 17/23 00:00:06 25291kN
>>
>>
>>All find mate -- some do it instantly, but none take over 20 seconds...
>>
>>Now let's use Fruit 2.2.1 in the same conditions (no egtb):
>>
>>8/2k5/8/3R4/8/8/5K2/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fruit 2.2.1:
>>
>>1.Ke3
>> +- (5.45) Depth: 1/1 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6
>> +- (5.57) Depth: 2/2 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4
>> +- (5.45) Depth: 3/4 00:00:00
>>1.Kg3 Kb7 2.Kf4
>> +- (5.55) Depth: 3/6 00:00:00
>>1.Kg3 Kb7 2.Kf4 Kc6
>> +- (5.58) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7
>> +- (5.76) Depth: 4/6 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Rc5+ Kd6
>> +- (5.57) Depth: 5/8 00:00:00
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7
>> +- (5.85) Depth: 6/10 00:00:00 13kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rg6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka4
>> +- (5.89) Depth: 7/11 00:00:00 58kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd6+ Kb5 4.Rg6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka5
>> +- (5.89) Depth: 8/13 00:00:01 238kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rd7 Kb5 4.Rd6 Kb4 5.Rb6+ Ka5
>> +- (5.89) Depth: 9/14 00:00:01 972kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rc5+ Kd7 5.Rc1 Ke7 6.Rc7+ Kd8
>> +- (6.25) Depth: 10/18 00:00:01 3671kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Ke5 Kc7 4.Rb5 Kd7 5.Rc5 Ke7 6.Rc7+ Kd8
>> +- (6.25) Depth: 11/19 00:00:05 13571kN
>>1.Rh5 Kd6 2.Ke3 Ke6 3.Kd4 Kd6 4.Rh6+ Ke7 5.Rc6 Ke8 6.Rc7 Kd8
>> +- (6.26) Depth: 11/20 00:00:18 48869kN
>>1.Rh5 Kd6 2.Ke2 Kd7 3.Kd3 Kc6 4.Rh6+ Kc7 5.Rg6 Kb8 6.Rg7 Kc8 7.Kd4
>> +- (6.14) Depth: 12/20 00:00:28 77398kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Ke4 Kc7 3.Ke5 Kc6 4.Ke6 Kc7 5.Rd6 Kc8 6.Rd7 Kb8
>> +- (6.33) Depth: 12/20 00:00:30 83851kN
>>1.Ke3 Kc6 2.Kd4 Kb6 3.Rc5 Kb7 4.Ke5 Ka7 5.Rc6 Kb8 6.Rc4 Ka8 7.Rc7
>> +- (6.45) Depth: 13/22 00:01:43 279150kN
>>
>>
>>Analysis stopped after 10 minutes -- all analysis on an A64 @ 2.7GHz with 512MB
>>hash (except CT 14 due to hash size control limitations.)
>>
>>Please -- will the die-hard "EGTB files are a waste" believers please stand-up.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Enrico.
>
>
>I think EGTBs are useful, but I think your examples illustrate the opposite of
>what you are trying to prove. :)
>
Or perhaps you miss my point and need a clearer path of explanation.
>Good chess engines are not optimised mate-finders, but optimised win-finders,
>and there is a big difference!
So, after viewing the example below, your definition of win-finder would be
taking the scenic route? Your statement is nonsense as finding mate is winning.
By the way -- your profile is missing.
>So whether the programs found mate instantly, let alone the quickest mate, or
>not is irrelevant.
>
>In all your examples, the programs found the fastest winning move (Ke3 - and I
>don't need to check that, do I - surely everything else must be at least 1 move
>slower?) in much less than one second. Probably in just a few thousandths of a
>second. And all gave it a high evaluation. Only one (J9) ever wavered from
>that choice Ke3.
>
>So, even if EGTBs were being used in the search itself, the presence of EGTBs
>would not have helped at all in this example. Chess Challenger 7 could not
>handle KRK, but we have moved on since then.
>
>Simply put, you need a more complex example. :)
I wasn't trying to hang Fruit with my example, so I didn't hammer my point clear
enough, perhaps. Yes it found the next suceeding move but not knowing a clear
path to mate in very simplistic ending can end with a lot of wasted time -- even
a flag.
Look at moves 86. on in the following exmaple. Fruit 2.2.1 was black.
1. Nf3 {0:05:03} Nf6 {0:05:03} 2. c4 {0:05:06} c5 {0:05:06} 3. g3 {0:05:08}
d5 {0:05:09} 4. cxd5 {0:05:11} Nxd5 {0:05:11} 5. Bg2 {0:05:14} Nc6 {0:05:14}
6. Nc3 {0:05:17} Nc7 {0:05:17} 7. Qa4 {0:05:20} Bd7 {0:05:20} 8. Qe4
{0:05:23} g6 {0:05:23} 9. Ne5 {0:05:26} Bg7 {0:05:26} 10. Nxd7 {0:05:29}
Qxd7 {0:05:29} 11. O-O {0:05:32} O-O {0:05:32} 12. a3 {0:05:35} Rac8
{0:05:34} 13. b4 {0:05:37} cxb4 {0:05:23} 14. axb4 {0:05:25} Nb5 {0:05:25}
15. Bb2 {0:05:07} a6 {0:05:28} 16. Rfd1 {0:04:41} Nd6 {0:05:31} 17. Qd5
{0:04:25} Rfd8 {0:05:34} 18. Qa2 {0:04:14} e6 {0:05:28} 19. Rdc1 {0:04:16}
Nf5 {0:05:19} 20. Bxc6 {0:04:16} Rxc6 {0:05:00} 21. d3 {0:04:00} Nd4
{0:04:34} 22. Kg2 {0:03:54} e5 {0:04:19} 23. Rab1 {0:03:30} h5 {0:04:22} 24.
Ne4 {0:03:25} Nxe2 {0:04:21} 25. Rxc6 {0:03:18} Qxc6 {0:04:17} 26. Qc4
{0:03:14} Qd5 {0:04:16} 27. Qxd5 {0:03:08} Rxd5 {0:04:19} 28. Kf3 {0:03:04}
Nd4+ {0:04:12} 29. Bxd4 {0:03:06} Rxd4 {0:04:01} 30. Ke3 {0:03:09} b6
{0:03:46} 31. Nd2 {0:03:01} Bh6+ {0:03:45} 32. Ke2 {0:03:00} Bxd2 {0:03:43}
33. Kxd2 {0:02:55} Kg7 {0:03:43} 34. Kc3 {0:02:46} Rd6 {0:03:42} 35. Re1
{0:02:42} Kf6 {0:03:30} 36. Re4 {0:02:45} Kf5 {0:03:22} 37. f4 {0:02:39}
Rc6+ {0:03:23} 38. Kd2 {0:02:30} exf4 {0:03:18} 39. Rxf4+ {0:02:32} Ke6
{0:03:14} 40. Re4+ {0:02:32} Kd7 {0:03:07} 41. Re1 {0:02:28} a5 {0:02:59}
42. Ra1 {0:02:28} axb4 {0:02:52} 43. Rb1 {0:02:31} Rf6 {0:02:46} 44. Ke3
{0:02:30} Re6+ {0:02:39} 45. Kf4 {0:02:33} Re2 {0:02:32} 46. Rxb4 {0:02:28}
Rf2+ {0:02:26} 47. Ke4 {0:02:19} Rxh2 {0:02:29} 48. Rxb6 {0:02:13} Rh3
{0:02:32} 49. Kf4 {0:02:07} h4 {0:02:31} 50. gxh4 {0:02:05} Rxd3 {0:02:26}
51. Kg5 {0:02:06} Rf3 {0:02:14} 52. Rb7+ {0:02:02} Ke6 {0:02:17} 53. Rb6+
{0:01:54} Ke7 {0:02:19} 54. Rb7+ {0:01:51} Kf8 {0:02:10} 55. Rb5 {0:01:54}
Rh3 {0:02:05} 56. Kf6 {0:01:56} Kg8 {0:02:03} 57. Rb8+ {0:01:57} Kh7
{0:02:05} 58. Kxf7 {0:01:54} Rxh4 {0:02:03} 59. Kf6 {0:01:57} Rh5 {0:02:05}
60. Rb1 {0:01:52} Rf5+ {0:02:08} 61. Ke6 {0:01:47} Kh6 {0:02:10} 62. Rb2
{0:01:42} Rf4 {0:02:13} 63. Rh2+ {0:01:38} Kg5 {0:02:15} 64. Ke5 {0:01:28}
Rh4 {0:02:18} 65. Rf2 {0:01:23} Kh5 {0:02:21} 66. Rf8 {0:01:22} g5 {0:02:23}
67. Rh8+ {0:01:17} Kg4 {0:02:26} 68. Rb8 {0:01:15} Rh1 {0:02:29} 69. Kf6
{0:01:13} Rh6+ {0:02:31} 70. Ke5 {0:01:11} Rc6 {0:02:34} 71. Ke4 {0:01:04}
Re6+ {0:02:36} 72. Kd4 {0:01:03} Re1 {0:02:39} 73. Rh8 {0:00:58} Kg3
{0:02:41} 74. Kd3 {0:00:55} g4 {0:02:44} 75. Rh6 {0:00:50} Kg2 {0:02:46} 76.
Rf6 {0:00:44} g3 {0:02:48} 77. Rf7 {0:00:41} Re5 {0:02:51} 78. Rh7 {0:00:41}
Kf3 {0:02:54} 79. Rf7+ {0:00:41} Kg4 {0:02:56} 80. Rf1 {0:00:42} g2
{0:02:58} 81. Rb1 {0:00:19} Kf3 {0:03:01} 82. Kd4 {0:00:17} Rg5 {0:03:03}
83. Rg1 {0:00:04} Kf2 {0:03:06} 84. Rd1 {0:00:05} g1=Q {0:03:08} 85. Rxg1
{0:00:08} Rxg1 {0:03:02} 86. Kd5 {0:00:07} Re1 {0:02:48} 87. Kd4 {0:00:05}
Rd1+ {0:02:26} 88. Ke4 {0:00:04} Rd8 {0:02:19} 89. Ke5 {0:00:06} Kf3
{0:02:00} 90. Ke6 {0:00:09} Ke4 {0:01:44} 91. Kf6 {0:00:07} Kd5 {0:01:22}
92. Ke7 {0:00:05} Rc8 {0:01:11} 93. Kf6 {0:00:07} Rc3 {0:01:03} 94. Kf5
{0:00:07} Rh3 {0:00:57} 95. Kf4 {0:00:07} Rh4+ {0:00:56} 96. Kf5 {0:00:09}
Rh5+ {0:00:52} 97. Kf4 {0:00:07} Re5 {0:00:41} 98. Kf3 {0:00:05} Rf5+
{0:00:36} 99. Ke3 {0:00:04} Rf7 {0:00:32} 100. Kd2 {0:00:04} Kc5 {0:00:24}
101. Ke3 {0:00:05} Rf1 {0:00:19} 102. Ke4 {0:00:04} Kd6 {0:00:11} 103. Kd3
{0:00:04} Rf3+ {0:00:05} 104. Ke4 {0:00:04} Rf8 {0:00:04} 105. Kd4 {0:00:04}
Rf4+ {0:00:07} 106. Kd3 {0:00:05} Kc5 {0:00:04} 107. Ke3 {0:00:06} Ra4
{0:00:04} 108. Kd3 {0:00:06} Rd4+ {0:00:07} 109. Ke3 {0:00:06} Rb4 {0:00:04}
110. Kd3 {0:00:06} Rh4 {0:00:04} 111. Ke3 {0:00:06} Kc4 {0:00:05} 112. Kf3
{0:00:08} Kd3 {0:00:04} 113. Kg3 {0:00:06} Rb4 {0:00:07} 114. Kf3 {0:00:05}
Kd2 {0:00:10} 115. Kf2 {0:00:05} Rb3 {0:00:12} 116. Kf1 {0:00:07} Ke3
{0:00:12} 117. Kg2 {0:00:10} Ke2 {0:00:13} 118. Kg1 {0:00:13} Kf3 {0:00:14}
119. Kh2 {0:00:15} Rb1 {0:00:14} 120. Kh3 {0:00:18} Rh1# {0:00:16}
{White checkmated}
0-1
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Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.