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Subject: Re: Chess Tiger - Is It Really 2696 ELO?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:42:53 12/22/99

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On December 22, 1999 at 19:43:03, John Warfield wrote:

>On December 22, 1999 at 17:11:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 22, 1999 at 14:01:43, Graham Laight wrote:
>>
>>>On December 22, 1999 at 10:00:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>>We firmly believe that our ratings are correct in the sense that if a computer
>>>>>were to play a sufficient number of games against Swedish humans, it would end
>>>>>up with a rating close to what it has on our list. Unfortunately, as programs
>>>>>get better it becomes increasingly difficult to arrange meaningful games against
>>>>>human players. Reassuringly, we've noted that our ratings are fairly consistent
>>>>>with the results from the yearly Aegon tournament in Holland.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Baloney nowadays.  No program would consistently play at near 2700 at
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>aegon.
>>>
>>>I respect your point of view as an experienced and practising computer chess
>>>person. However, I feel compelled to ask: have you any evidence to support this
>>>assertion? If not, why do you think it is so?
>>>
>>>At the end of the day, good chess is good chess. A machine that can beat more
>>>computers is also likely to beat more humans.
>>>
>>>Graham
>>
>>I feel that way based on watching them play.
>
>
>  hmm Strange that a man of Science such as yourself would go on "feeling" and
>no facts. Schredder 4 just got finish Drawing Karpov at 40/2, so they could very
>well be near 2700, although I doubt it. By the way what is your rating? I would
>like to know how much chess knowledge is behind these  "feelings"
>
>


I had a provisional rating of just over 2200.  But that was provisional.  I
never played in the needed 24 games.  I have played a FM on ICC (used to play
him pretty regularly) and generally broke even with him.  I'd guess he was
really a 2000-2100 FIDE player as he was not playing much tournament chess
when he was on ICC.

I have a pretty good 'feeling' about the game.  And a lot of my 'feelings'
about how computers play come from both personal observation, plus lots of
discussion with players _far_ stronger than I am, a couple of them being GMs
and a couple more being active IM players...

As far as going on 'feeling' and not 'fact' that is simply wrong.  I haven't
seen any great results by computers against GM players at 40/2.  Drawing Karpov
is not bad.  But he is a long way from a 2700 player today...  Once I see that
programs do play evenly with GM players at 40/2, my estimate will change.  But
not until...


>
>
> 2700 is an incredibly high
>>rating, better than all but maybe 10 players.  I don't believe a computer
>>other than Deep Blue has a prayer of playing at that level, on any hardware
>>forseeable for the next 5 years, assuming the PC platform.
>>
>>Rebel has almost hit 2500 against GM and IM players.  to get to 2700 would
>>require a herculean effort.  IE it would have to win 3 games for every loss
>>vs 2500 players, which seems impossible at present...



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