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Subject: Re: Match Junior 6a - Tiger 12e (40 in 2 hr, 20 in 1hr) completed...

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 06:53:57 03/27/00

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On March 27, 2000 at 09:06:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On March 25, 2000 at 23:13:49, Tina Long wrote:
>
>>On March 25, 2000 at 14:28:13, James Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>On March 25, 2000 at 13:41:28, Roger wrote:
>>>
>>>>Would tablebases for Tiger have changed this result at all?
>>>>
>>>>Roger
>>>
>>>Maybe a quarter of a point.... My experience with tablebases is that if the
>>>program is moderately smart it doesn't benefit tremendously from them.
>>>
>>>James
>>>
>>Ed Schroder said about 6 months ago that Tablebases were worth about 10 points
>>on the SSDF scale.
>>
>>I'm 70% sure he said that! I'm 100% sure that Ed said once that something was
>>worth very little rating points.
>>
>>I'm glad I could add some real detail to this discussion.
>>
>>Tina Long
>
>
>Ed is wrong there.  it is _amazing_ how many comp vs comp games end up in
>krp vs kr, with the side without tablebases losing most of those.  There are
>other endings too (KQP vs KQ, see for example crafty vs nimzo in the ICCT
>tournament last month).
>
>The wrong way to test this is to play A with, vs A without.  the right way to
>test this is A without vs B without, then A with vs B without.  But A ought to
>be reasonably close to B without tablebases...

Tablebases have a great future no doubt. But what is available at the
moment (4-5 pieces) its value for Rebel is not more than 5-10 elo I
would say because:

a) most cases are simply covered by chess knowlegde;

b) the loss of speed during search because of all the
disc access.

So I don't think I am wrong when the subject is Rebel.

Things might change dramatically when for instance the complete
6 pieces become available. +100 elo easily for chess programs.

Ed



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