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Subject: Re: Phhhbt

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:12:12 04/25/00

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On April 25, 2000 at 00:50:50, Tom Kerrigan wrote:

>On April 24, 2000 at 22:13:10, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>On April 24, 2000 at 18:49:04, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On April 24, 2000 at 15:56:37, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 24, 2000 at 15:43:24, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>>>[snip]
>>>>>Here's my question. If pondering=off cripples Crafty so badly to the point that
>>>>>Bob Hyatt has to write dozens of posts about it, why doesn't he just do
>>>>>something to fix it? I mean, surely the time spent writing all those posts could
>>>>>have been put to better use.
>>>>
>>>>That makes a great deal of sense if Dr. Hyatt were writing crafty to make people
>>>>happy who want to play engine verses engine matches on a single machine.
>>>>However, he does not play it that way and it is contrary to his purposes.
>>>>
>>>>Do you alter your programs to make them do what others wish even when it does
>>>>not coincide with your desires?
>>>
>>>Yes.
>>>
>>>-Tom
>>
>>If your point is that Bob should do this or that, I think that Bob should be the
>>one who decides what Bob does.  It's great to suggest improvements in
>>functionality or support, but if Bob wants to do it his own way, that's fine.
>
>Decisions are influenced by your surroundings.
>
>Right now, Bob is surrounded by people who do matches between Crafty and ___
>with no pondering. Consequently, Bob has to do a tremendous amount of damage
>control. Here are the options, as I see them:
>
>1) Continue to waste time by doing massive damage control
>
>2) Simply remove the ponder switch from Crafty, so Crafty can't be crippled
>
>3) Un-cripple Crafty
>
>Personally, I would not like to _continually_ make excuses for my program, i.e.,
>option 1. I think option 2 is a hack, but still better than option 1.
>Personally, I would go with option 3.
>
>I don't really see what the problem is with option 3. If Crafty is using too
>much time in the opening and middlegame, just make it use less time. Multiply
>some number by 75% or whatever. It may not be a "fine tuned" solution, but at
>least the program won't lose all its games.
>
>-Tom


Once you add some sophistication to your time control logic, you will see that
the above is a very 'superficial' suggestion.  Base time allocation is but one
part of the problem.  How much time can you use (extra time) when you get a
positional fail-low, not a material one?  How much extra time can you use on a
fail low for a single pawn?  For a piece?  What if you do a 12 ply search, and
the first 11 plies show you winning a pawn.  At depth=12, after the first move,
you discover that move doesn't win that pawn.  How much extra time do you use
there to see if the pawn win was real, or just a deep tactical plan by your
opponent that made the pawn a "phantom"...

These are serious decisions with serious repercussions.  It isn't a matter of
simply saying target=target*.75.  At least in my program it isn't.  Timing is
interwoven with other decisions.

Timing is _not_ trivial.  My "rules" have taken years to reach a point where I
consider them to be reasonable.  If yours were written in a couple of nights,
then they might be easy to change.  Mine were not...



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