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Subject: Re: Fine tuning the engine's strength

Author: John Coffey

Date: 16:34:02 07/24/00

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On July 24, 2000 at 14:45:01, KarinsDad wrote:

>On July 24, 2000 at 14:23:19, KarinsDad wrote:
>
>>On July 24, 2000 at 13:30:06, Jari Huikari wrote:
>>
>>>On July 24, 2000 at 13:01:36, John Coffey wrote:
>>>
>>>>Only slightly related to the GUI is having a range of abilities from beginner
>>>>up to the top level that can be fine tuned.
>>>
>>>>I tried it on Chessmaster 6000, all the levels 1600 and below were dropping
>>>>pieces, and the next level up was smashing me at speed chess (my quick rating
>>>>is 1978.)
>>>
>>>I have thought about how this could be done. One idea that came into my
>>>mind was simply to put some delay routine into search to make it slower
>>>and thus playing weaker.
>>>
>>>					Jari
>>
>>
>>I do not think those types of solutions work, i.e. less time, fewer nodes, lower
>>depth, etc. The program will still play relatively strong until some other
>>algorithm takes over (i.e. the below 1600 drop piece problem that John noted).
>>
>>What you need is a chess engine that generates multiple ply 1 PVs. Then, it
>>could randomly pick a different PV each move.
>>
>>So, for example, if it had 5 PVs that it could choose from, at 2600 setting it
>>would always pick PV 1 each time. At 2400 setting, it would occasionally pick
>>the PV 2 move. At 2200, it would pick PV 1 45%, PV 2 45%, PV 3 10%. At 1600, it
>>might pick PV 1 20%, PV 2 20%, PV 3 20%, PV 4 20%, PV 5 20%.
>>
>>Then, the computer would not be dropping pieces, even at a 1000 setting (even
>>though 1000 players often do drop a piece). But, it would rarely be playing the
>>best move in those positions at the lower settings.
>>
>>Of course, you would have to add in some logic that the scores of the PVs could
>>not be that drastically different. For example, NxB would normally result in PxN
>>as PV 1. If PV 2 did not have a similar PV score to PV 1 (i.e. there were no
>>waiting moves that do not lose the bishop), then the program would still make
>>the PV 1 move, regardless of setting.
>>
>>KarinsDad :)
>
>I forgot to mention that lowering the depth in conjunction with this type of
>solution would be optimal. It doesn't make sense to pick a PV 5 move that avoids
>a capture 14 ply down that is also avoided by PV 1 through 4. If the setting is
>1200 rating, then the program should not generally be seeing more than 4 to 6
>ply down before deciding on it's PVs.
>
>KarinsDad :)

Interesting but ....

Computer's today
run at hundreds of mhz.  It wasn't always so.  When I played computers
that ran at 3 and 4 mhz, it was possible to select levels from very weak
up to the top level (which might have been 2000.)  But today's comptuers usually
have a minimum setting of one second per move.  Fritz at that time setting is
probably
still a master at speed chess.  I have tried to set programs at fractions of
seconds per move, but they won't allow it.  :-)

So allowing a program to be set at fractions of seconds per move would help.

I have suggested in this forum that computer programs have levels where ....

level 1  stops after passing 32 nodes
level 2 stops after passing 64 nodes
level 3 stops after passing 128 nodes
level 4 stops after passing 256 nodes
level 5 stops after passing 512 nodes

etc.

Some people have tried to shoot down this idea saying I shouldn't be such a
wuss and that if I can't play even with a senior master level computer that
maybe I should take up dominoes.  :-)

I suspect, however, that most people buy a computer program for playing, and
they want to find a level that will give them a challenge without them getting
totally clobbered.

John Coffey



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