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Subject: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines?

Author: Wieland Belka

Date: 13:25:43 11/08/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 07, 2000 at 17:36:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 07, 2000 at 17:01:16, Wieland Belka wrote:
>
>>On November 07, 2000 at 10:30:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On November 07, 2000 at 06:56:01, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 05, 2000 at 09:42:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 05, 2000 at 06:09:28, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 23:58:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 12:59:23, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Posted by Robert Hyatt on November 03, 2000 at 20:53:12:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In Reply to: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines? posted by
>>>>>>>>Wieland Belka on November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53:
>>>>>>>>On November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53, Wieland Belka wrote: >On November 02, 2000 at
>>>>>>>>14:25:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 13:22:08, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Crafty friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>using opening books it's a great part of Crafty's strong playing, well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>1. How could I complete Crafty's book with specific opening stuff?
>>>>>>>>>>>>2. Can Crafty profit from any game archives? If yes, on which way?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Can anybody help?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Wieland
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is not hard to do...  you can use _any_ collection of PGN games
>>>>>>>>>>>you want, in order to build an opening book that covers the specific
>>>>>>>>>>>openings you want to play against.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>We already have 2M game collections available.  My ftp machine is full
>>>>>>>>>>>of pgn files...  The problem is "quality".  not "quantity".  The pgn has
>>>>>>>>>>>typos, games by patzers, horrible blunders, openings that have been busted,
>>>>>>>>>>>and so forth.  Learning will help, but it definitely takes time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Bob, thanks for reply!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You are right, of course, because of the quality of collections of PGN games.
>>>>>>>>>>But I meant: If I had a little, but good collection to a specific rare opening,
>>>>>>>>>>on which way could I *complete* Crafty's original book?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The way to do this is to take the original PGN, and then _add_ to it with the stuff you want to >use.  In fact, the books.bin file is made to add to in this fashion, leaving book.bin to be a >large "backup" for when books.bin is
>>>>>>>>>no longer useful.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What do you mean with _add_? A command? Unknown by your command list v. 17.XX!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>There is no "add command".  You have to have the original PGN file used to
>>>>>>>create the book, then to this file you "add" the new pgn you want included.
>>>>>>>You do this with any editor of your choice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And my second ask: Is it the right way to produce own openings books with *your*
>>>>>>>>>>collections of PGN games on your ftp server? The way for that is clear, but is
>>>>>>>>>>it well? Or is your Crafty opening book already the best solution?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>What I do now is _not_ optimal.  It needs a lot more work, which will happen
>>>>>>>>>over the next year or two.  I don't believe in hand-crafted books, as they
>>>>>>>>>require too much human labor.  But they are difficult to beat, without a _lot_
>>>>>>>>>of work...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Bob, I'm a new fan of your Crafty! But the only thing I have is your command
>>>>>>>>list v. 17.XX!!
>>>>>>>>What are you telling me?! Is it possible to complete your opening book
>>>>>>>>"book.bin" with own serious PGN game collections?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>yes.  building the book simply sucks in a big pgn file.  You can put _anything_
>>>>>>>into that file that you think is appropriate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob, please, sorry, but we are turning in a cycle again! ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I only wanted to say: The way to create an own opening book is clear. But I
>>>>>>asked after a solution (Crafty commands!) to *complete* Crafty's book! Your
>>>>>>command list v. 17.XX is not telling about it!
>>>>>>By the way: I do not know exactly meaning of "book.bin" here and "books.bin" on
>>>>>>the other side.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>There is no command to "complete" crafty's book.  You can only create a
>>>>>book from raw PGN.  Not add to it.  Before you create the book, you can
>>>>>put _anything_ in the pgn file.  Then after you create the book from this
>>>>>pgn file, you will have a book with the moves you want included.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Okay, now I understood. I can not complete your existing Crafty's opening books
>>>>directly.
>>>>And the other way: Is it possible to create a PGN file from your "book.bin" to
>>>>complete with my stuff and create a new Crafty book.bin?
>>>>
>>>
>>>No.  the hashing is non-reversible.  But the original PGN file is already
>>>available on my ftp machine (enormous.pgn is the file you want, it is broken
>>>into pieces to make it easier to download).
>>>
>>
>>Thanks, Bob! Now I'm knowing really more than before! The last ones:
>>1. What parameter do you recommend creating a really good new book.bin for
>>Crafty?
>>   And books.bin??
>
>I don't believe that (at present) it is possible to create a "really good book"
>from pgn game collections.  There are too many mistakes, blunders, refuted
>moves, and so forth.
>
>This is a tough problem to do automatically.
>

But you have done so, too?!

>>2. Is your "enormous.pgn" better than Dann Corbit's PGN opening folders under
>>    ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/a-openings/ and following?

>No idea.  Dan knows what I have.  I believe what I have came from what he
>has, which means if you combine all his stuff you get the file I use.


And you do not know that?? Who did deliver "enormous.pgn"? I only ask to know
which chances I have to create own opening books ...



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