Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:36:35 11/07/00

Go up one level in this thread


On November 07, 2000 at 17:01:16, Wieland Belka wrote:

>On November 07, 2000 at 10:30:06, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 07, 2000 at 06:56:01, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>
>>>On November 05, 2000 at 09:42:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 05, 2000 at 06:09:28, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 23:58:39, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 04, 2000 at 12:59:23, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Posted by Robert Hyatt on November 03, 2000 at 20:53:12:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In Reply to: Re: Crafty 17.13 - using game archives by engines? posted by
>>>>>>>Wieland Belka on November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53:
>>>>>>>On November 03, 2000 at 18:19:53, Wieland Belka wrote: >On November 02, 2000 at
>>>>>>>14:25:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On November 02, 2000 at 13:22:08, Wieland Belka wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hello Crafty friends,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>using opening books it's a great part of Crafty's strong playing, well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>1. How could I complete Crafty's book with specific opening stuff?
>>>>>>>>>>>2. Can Crafty profit from any game archives? If yes, on which way?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Can anybody help?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks Wieland
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is not hard to do...  you can use _any_ collection of PGN games
>>>>>>>>>>you want, in order to build an opening book that covers the specific
>>>>>>>>>>openings you want to play against.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>We already have 2M game collections available.  My ftp machine is full
>>>>>>>>>>of pgn files...  The problem is "quality".  not "quantity".  The pgn has
>>>>>>>>>>typos, games by patzers, horrible blunders, openings that have been busted,
>>>>>>>>>>and so forth.  Learning will help, but it definitely takes time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bob, thanks for reply!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>You are right, of course, because of the quality of collections of PGN games.
>>>>>>>>>But I meant: If I had a little, but good collection to a specific rare opening,
>>>>>>>>>on which way could I *complete* Crafty's original book?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The way to do this is to take the original PGN, and then _add_ to it with the stuff you want to >use.  In fact, the books.bin file is made to add to in this fashion, leaving book.bin to be a >large "backup" for when books.bin is
>>>>>>>>no longer useful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What do you mean with _add_? A command? Unknown by your command list v. 17.XX!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There is no "add command".  You have to have the original PGN file used to
>>>>>>create the book, then to this file you "add" the new pgn you want included.
>>>>>>You do this with any editor of your choice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And my second ask: Is it the right way to produce own openings books with *your*
>>>>>>>>>collections of PGN games on your ftp server? The way for that is clear, but is
>>>>>>>>>it well? Or is your Crafty opening book already the best solution?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What I do now is _not_ optimal.  It needs a lot more work, which will happen
>>>>>>>>over the next year or two.  I don't believe in hand-crafted books, as they
>>>>>>>>require too much human labor.  But they are difficult to beat, without a _lot_
>>>>>>>>of work...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob, I'm a new fan of your Crafty! But the only thing I have is your command
>>>>>>>list v. 17.XX!!
>>>>>>>What are you telling me?! Is it possible to complete your opening book
>>>>>>>"book.bin" with own serious PGN game collections?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>regards Wieland
>>>>>>
>>>>>>yes.  building the book simply sucks in a big pgn file.  You can put _anything_
>>>>>>into that file that you think is appropriate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Bob, please, sorry, but we are turning in a cycle again! ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>I only wanted to say: The way to create an own opening book is clear. But I
>>>>>asked after a solution (Crafty commands!) to *complete* Crafty's book! Your
>>>>>command list v. 17.XX is not telling about it!
>>>>>By the way: I do not know exactly meaning of "book.bin" here and "books.bin" on
>>>>>the other side.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There is no command to "complete" crafty's book.  You can only create a
>>>>book from raw PGN.  Not add to it.  Before you create the book, you can
>>>>put _anything_ in the pgn file.  Then after you create the book from this
>>>>pgn file, you will have a book with the moves you want included.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Okay, now I understood. I can not complete your existing Crafty's opening books
>>>directly.
>>>And the other way: Is it possible to create a PGN file from your "book.bin" to
>>>complete with my stuff and create a new Crafty book.bin?
>>>
>>
>>No.  the hashing is non-reversible.  But the original PGN file is already
>>available on my ftp machine (enormous.pgn is the file you want, it is broken
>>into pieces to make it easier to download).
>>
>
>Thanks, Bob! Now I'm knowing really more than before! The last ones:
>1. What parameter do you recommend creating a really good new book.bin for
>Crafty?
>   And books.bin??

I don't believe that (at present) it is possible to create a "really good book"
from pgn game collections.  There are too many mistakes, blunders, refuted
moves, and so forth.

This is a tough problem to do automatically.




>2. Is your "enormous.pgn" better than Dann Corbit's PGN opening folders under
>    ftp://cap.connx.com/pub/a-openings/ and following?



No idea.  Dan knows what I have.  I believe what I have came from what he
has, which means if you combine all his stuff you get the file I use.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.