Author: Detlef Pordzik
Date: 16:44:04 03/18/98
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On March 18, 1998 at 04:38:38, Ed Schröder wrote: >I fully agree with you. If things get honest again (engine versus >engine) >I will be happy to join the SSDF again. But let's face it, first we had >to deal with book cooks, then the learners came and now we have to deal >with an unknown autoplayer from a competitor? Yes - this is right, let me say - the majority of it..... you know it, I know it - and all of them people of the elder times : what we now call book - cooking was named outbooking in them old times - but, it was more durable ( :-) ) - because of burnt EPROM's. This has allways been there..... because of lack of knowledge, how the learner actually works, I cannot comment this - you must know better, if there are more possibilitiers than just avoiding a loosing line, as a simple man'd suggest it to work. >This for me is just the limit. Till now everybody has made his >autoplayer public. Now we have a new fashion, a secret autoplayer. >Who is next? Why should I join this new fashion? Don't you do so, Ed ! For my opinion neather you, nor Marty, Richard, Johann, Mark, Stefan and Robert would need to join such a " new " - but leading into nowhere - " fashion ". ( Jesus - hopefully didn't forget one of them big names....) This road'd be a dead end street - the basical quality of the progs is far too high + in the end you all'd ruin the effort of many years. Because then there would be no more research on increase of the quality of gameplay - but only the gasp for new horizons of tricks..... I fairly doubt - as I know some of you, that the people themselves would do it, after all. It would just be the upcoming end - correct ?? >>do you see a chance, to get things back into balance, without SSDF >>finally loosing it's face - and what would you personally suggest, how >>this could work ? > >As I said before: > >- General accepted autoplayers also available for the public; >- Equal hash table sizes; >- Skip doubles; Dull ELVIS could offer a solution on short range, where the " loosing part " - in this case, SSDF, would have a minimum of problems - comparing to the state of art : just start a new testing seria with F5 - book on HD - why not....leave the brute searcher it's 44 MB - why not....R9 + M7 can grab 60 MEGS without problems - but in difference to F5 they don't NEED such big tablebases on 40/120...... repeat all this on commercial available autoplayer - and then replace the old result. IF F5 is still on top, then, it's allright - if not - I don't know...:-)) This would even leave CB the chance of not loosing their face ( totally ). Not to forget Frans Morsch - who is really kicked by all this ! On longer range : ONLY commercial available progs with the original engine. Skip doubles. Standard autoplayer. Maybe I'm a dreamer.....but I see nothin' better ; for the SSDF for buisness for the customer >I do not share Ossie Weiner's opinions in the way he has expressed >himself. I have no single evidence the chessbase autoplayer cheats. >Neither do I expect that from a respected company. But I should have >the chance to check that myself. It's called fair competition. As I've posted before - Ossi does his job - I think, you're one of the VERY last - not to know this, eh ? What does KK allways post standardly ? "....should be taken with a grain of salt...." - make the load a little bigger - then you can swallow this, too :-)) >Sofar I noticed: > >#1. The chessbase autoplayer doesn't save the opponents game. Maybe >opponents in that stage update their learner? Logical place no? And >now maybe this learner update is bypassed? For Rebel8/9 this could >be so true. I can't check. How can I judge? > >#2. The chessbase autoplayer changes colors. white-black-white and >so on. This is not COMMON auto232. Looking at my source code this >doesn't seem to influence the learner of Rebel. But how can I know >for sure? And what about other chess programs? Did the Swedish ask >the programmers if this white-black-white behavior influence their >learners? One thing for sure, they didn't ask me. And from a >programmers view of point this white-black-white behavior can easily >disturb their learner. > >Quite a mess... ELVIS ain't no programmer - I think, Robert wrote something interesting about this. Anyway - right in here ( without any elitary attitude ) - there are so many educated guys......names - older, newer - alot of them known for long time in this buisness - one should think about constructing an open letter ( why only Ossi....), maybe signed by 30 or 40 respectable people - so there'd be no chance to spot it as a single sided commercial sight - and then send it to Sweden......only a suggestion. ELVIS
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