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Subject: Re: The computer world champion is Shredder

Author: Paul Petersson

Date: 05:29:10 04/19/01

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On April 18, 2001 at 13:43:46, Peter Berger wrote:

>On April 18, 2001 at 09:01:59, Paul Petersson wrote:
>
>>On April 18, 2001 at 00:30:01, Peter Berger wrote:
>>
>>>It boils down to a simple question : why don't they simply take Shredder 5 or
>>>Deep Shredder NOW , test it and post the results on their list now ?
>>
>>It's already on the list. All the testers know the rating of S5. The fact that
>>it's not on the official list is all because of one man and his actions and
>>behaviour towards the SSDF.
>>
>
>OK . That's partly good news ; so if the problems could be resolved you could
>add it without much effort .

Yes, but since they won't it doesn't matter.

>>>
>>>d.) SSDF rejected and said they only wanted to test Shredder if they could test
>>>any other program by Millenium , too .
>>
>>Ossi Weiner knew the exact conditions long before we started to play with S5. He
>>didn't agree and now it's to late.
>
>How can it be too late ? Shredder 5 too old now ? Well , you recently entered
>Hiarcs 7.01 on a K6/450 which isn't exactly new either .

No S5 isn't to old, but since Weiner didn't agree, S5/DeepShredder won't be on
the official list.

>And now there is Deep Shredder which is brand new .
>
>Afaik yout kept Shredder's results completely secret , so it can't be the reason
>for Millenium's recent decisions .

I think you're wrong. Weiner probably understands that S5 wouldn't top the list
and therefor prefers to keep S5 out of it.

>>>g.) Millenium offered to provide free copies for the testers to make up for the
>>>unclear invoice issue .
>>>
>>
>>There is NOTHING unclear about the invoice. His condition for paying it was that
>>he wanted the SSDF to withdraw all games played with the Fritz5 autoplayer and
>>only count manually played games.
>>
>>Paul
>
>Sorry : my choice of the word "unclear" was unfortunate . Thanks for adding the
>facts here as you see them . My choice of "unclear" simply referred to some
>counter claims Mr Weiner made ( they didn't sound too convincing anyway ).

The counter claims are pure fiction!!! It's a typical example of his
disinformation strategy.

>
>OK , so now the list should look like this ( I do know there are still some
>minor things left out but as you didn't object to the rest no need to mention
>this webpage discussion ; anyway this as some other little things were resolved
>anyway afaik ):
>
>a.) SSDF was forbidden to test Shredder 4
>b.) SSDF complained .
>c.) SSDF was allowed to test Shredder 5
>d.) SSDF rejected and said they only wanted to test Shredder if they could test
>any other program by Millenium , too .
>e.) Millenium agreed to this but pointed out they can only make this statement
>for programs where they still hold the rights .
>f.) SSDF rejected to test Shredder 5 again and brought up the issue of an
>unpayed invoice of 500 DM of some years ago ( which never was mentioned
>before ) .
>g.) Millenium offered to provide free copies for the testers to make up for the
>invoice issue .

Basically only a.) is correct. This list is misleading because it sees things
from Weiners perspective and it assumes that his story is correct, which it
isn't.

>
>In fact the things left out include that Millenium already allowed testing of
>Shredder 4 after some discussions btw so it's not all one-sided.

Yes it's all one-sided. Weiner never agreed to our terms.

>
>I think it is great that the SSDF is an independent organization .

Good to hear!

>
>So members shouldn't be too close friends with certain programmers or their
>companies .
>
>On the other hand this suggests SSDF shouldn't fight wars with other programmers

We never did!

>nor their companies either if it can be avoided IMHO .

We never did. Weiner fights us like he fights many others. I'm sure you know
about his other fights.

>
>I am not aware that SSDF ever had disagreements with Stefan Meyer-Kahlen .

True. We never had. It's unfortunate that Stefan has suffered from Weiners
actions.

>
>So it's kind of a war SSDF - Ossi Weiner .

No, it's Weiner against anyone he picks.

>
>At christmas time this conflict was very near to be resolved - at least this was
>my impression when reading some messages - the place to discuss this subject (
>the CSS forum ) was kind of unfortunate as several people jumped in with
>messages full of hatred which didn't exactly help - but it seemed both parties
>tried .
>
>The last thing that SSDF demanded was a public excuse by Mr Weiner - but as the
>SSDF members really didn't post and act like angels either I don't think this
>can be too serious a problem .

You forget who started the attack! All those lies etc....

>
>In fact I was surprised when Millenium cleared their nasty SSDF article from
>their pages ;-) .

It didn't make much difference. The damage was already done.

>
>This invoice discussion - come on !! If it's about the money - post a message
>here and ask for donations ; I think in 3 days you'll have the money donated by
>fans of your list and/or Shredder !

It's not only the money. It's just part of the picture. We can never trust
Weiner again.

>
>Who is this list for anyway ? The companies ? I don't think so .
>
>So it's probably us costumers !

Of course it's for the costumers!

>
>Nobody demands that you all become big friends with Mr Weiner ...

Yes that's fortunate because it would never happen!


Paul


>
>Greetings .
>
>pete



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