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Subject: Re: AP downloads, ratings and the latest results now online ...

Author: Andreas Herrmann

Date: 10:01:49 08/23/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 23, 2001 at 08:13:02, Jouni Uski wrote:

>On August 23, 2001 at 08:01:56, Jeff Lischer wrote:
>
>>On August 23, 2001 at 05:59:28, Andreas Herrmann wrote:
>>
>>>On August 23, 2001 at 00:20:20, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 22, 2001 at 21:35:14, Frank Quisinsky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi there,
>>>>>
>>>>>my emperiment "Amateurs vs. Professionals" is now over (the right time, WM is
>>>>>running ... good timing :-)) ).
>>>>>
>>>>>You can find all "AP" results in a table in my News Ticker.
>>>>>You can find all 1.440 games in CBH and PGN and a rating list (all engines are
>>>>>playing 180 games).
>>>>>
>>>>>I have a lot of fun with the AP tournaments, maybe I more fun if Gandalf won
>>>>>more tourneys :-))
>>>>>
>>>>>Amateurs vs. Professionals:
>>>>>http://www.amateurschach.de/schach/cbase/experiment.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>All results available in my News Ticker:
>>>>>http://www.amateurschach.de/news.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>...
>>>>>
>>>>>Have now a nice latest WM day.
>>>>>
>>>>>Best
>>>>>Frank
>>>>
>>>>The result prove that the professionals are clearly better than the amatuers.
>>>>The best amatuer Goliath Light got less points than the worse proffesional
>>>>Nimzo8.
>>>>
>>>>It seems that in a tournament of 180 games the amatuers have no practical chance
>>>>to win.
>>>>
>>>>Uri
>>>
>>>Yes in 180 game tournaments (the statistical error is very low), but in a 9 game
>>>tournament like the WMCCC 2001 there is nearby all possible. In Frank's test,
>>>the amateurs wins 3 of 20 tournaments. In his tournaments Fritz is the strongest
>>>engine, but it wins only 4 or 5 times.
>>>
>>>Andreas
>>
>>Also, Tiger was the 2nd strongest engine, but finished tied for 14th-15th in one
>>tournament -- a tournament won by the 11th strongest SOS. Frank's experiment
>>really highlights how *anything* can happen in short tournaments like WMCCC.
>>
>
>But I have feeling, that with longer time control (as in Maastrich) surprises
>are less likely. Frank's tournament was 40/10 I think.
>
>Jouni


No, my opinion is, that the chance to get a halv or a full point against a
stronger program is in longer time controls better for the weaker program.

In blitz games programs reaches a depth of about 6 to 11 plys. In tournamnet
games with for excample 40 moves in 120 minutes they reaches about 15 or more
plys. If a weaker reaches about 1 ply less than the stronger one, it is more bad
in blitz games.

Excample:
I was very surprized about the games from my program Holmes (without nullmove
and pondering) at the IPCCC in Paderborn this year. I got for excample a halv
point against Comet. In blitz games i have to play 50 or hundred games to get a
draw against Comet. So my opinion is, shorter time controls are better for the
stronger ones.

I hope you understand my bad english.

Andreas



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