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Subject: Re: Fritz5 and memory

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 03:04:42 05/29/98

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On May 29, 1998 at 01:23:32, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On May 28, 1998 at 20:01:08, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>On May 28, 1998 at 18:39:41, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On May 28, 1998 at 16:02:52, Georg Langrath wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have just bought Fritz5, and I am very satisfied with it. But there is
>>>>a disadvantage with it that everybody that want to buy it should be
>>>>aware of. It is enormously memoryhungry. In the manual they recommend 72
>>>>MB! memory for a Pentium 200 in average 3-minutes play. And it is so.
>>>>When the beast has eaten the hashmemory it nearly stops analyzing. To
>>>>analyze longer time for example 15 minutes is impossible for usual
>>>>homecomputers.
>>>>I myself always play on shorter time, so my memory is enough (32MB on
>>>>Pentum133). But if I should like to play tournament level I had to
>>>>upgrade. The formula according to manual is 2 x HZ x minutes.
>>>>
>>>>Georg
>>>
>>>Sorry Georg, but unless I understand nothing about computer chess
>>>programming, when the hash table is full the program DOES keep on
>>>analyzing. Maybe you get a few percent slowdown, but the program in no
>>>way stops analyzing!
>>>
>>>I guess the manual just warns you that you should have more memory to
>>>get ABSOLUTE optimum performances at longer time controls, but with less
>>>memory you are just a few percent under this optimal curve.
>>>
>>>That's all.
>>>
>>>This issue has been discussed several times here. Maybe Fritz manual
>>>warns you too much with too heavy words, but thinking that the analysis
>>>nearly stops is a common mistake among computer chess users. I wonder
>>>why...
>>>
>>>Anyway, you can be sure that your 32Mb is not that bad.
>>>
>>>With my program, Chess Tiger, I usually get a few percent speedup a long
>>>time controls when I increase my hash table size from 16Mb to 32Mb. What
>>>a big deal!
>>>
>>>BTW, I have read several times here that Fritz takes advantage of more
>>>hash tables, and need them in fact, but I don't remember somebody kind
>>>enough to post here some real data. Isn't time to show some numbers so
>>>this legend can be verified? I would have done it myself, but I don't
>>>have Fritz5...
>>>
>>>If somebody posts real numbers, I will do the same kind of experiment
>>>with Chess Tiger and others programs I have.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>On a PII/300
>>                100MB        50MB          25MB
>>BS2830-14       208''        224''         301''
>>BT2630-09       404''        406''         435''
>>
>>
>>On a P200MMX
>>                100MB        40MB          22MB
>>BT2630-09       524''        560''
>>Fritzmark       174          156           154
>>
>>Chessbase claim that by increasing hashtables from 40 MB to 100 MB on a
>>P200MMX, Fritz 5 is 50 Elo points stronger. It doesn't make sense to me
>>that doubling RAM has the same effect as doubling the processor speed.
>>After the times above, maybe going from 25 to 100 MB hash Friz 5 can
>>become some 20 points stronger.
>>
>>Enrique
>
>Thanks for the concrete data, Enrique.
>
>So we can see on these positions that Fritz gains 31% in speed on
>BS2830-14, and 7% on BT2630-09 when we give it 4x times more hash
>tables.
>
>Could you please post the positions in EPD format, so I will be able to
>give the results for Tiger as promised?
>
>
>    Christophe

BS2830-14:
r1bqr1k1/pp1n1ppp/5b2/4N1B1/3p3P/8/PPPQ1PP1/2K1RB1R w - - 0 0 bm Nxf7

BT2630-09:
r5k1/pp2p1bp/6p1/n1p1P3/2qP1NP1/2PQB3/P5PP/R4K2 b - - 0 0 bm g5

It's true that many more positions are needed to make sure about the
influence of hash size on Fritz 5, but I am too lazy to collect so much
data. I picked 2 positions where F5 uses an amount of time typical of
games at 40/2.

Enrique



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