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Subject: Re: Who can update about new 64 bits chip?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:50:48 08/25/02

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On August 25, 2002 at 11:21:31, Dan Andersson wrote:

>>
>>If you look at my response to Vincent, there are a few issues that need
>>addressing because NUMA introduces a much higher memory latency for
>>processors that are farther away from the actual memory word needed.  This
>>has to be addressed to produce reasonable speedups.
>>
>You say much higher. The latency for one CPU is 80 ns. For MP one hop is 115 ns,


First, I don't believe _any_ of those numbers from vendors.  If they were
true, the vendors would use that _same_ low-latency memory on the uniprocessor
boxes.  But they don't.  Which says a lot about the "realness" of the numbers.




>two hops 150 ns and three are less than 190 ns. That doesn't seem like much to
>me. Putting more information in a hash return could amortize the cost to almost
>nothing it seems.

Maybe, but again, until we get to _real_ latency numbers, it is hard to
discuss how to work around them...  By "real" I mean "how long does it take
to randomly access a word in my memory, then a word in a processor's memory
that is one hop away, etc.  Vendors smooth those numbers by considering
the latency for a "block".  But I don't always want a "block" of data where
I access every byte in it...



>>
>>There are plenty of NUMA machines around today, notably from SGI, which can
>>be used to understand these issues...
>>
>And we have those and an IBM system of certain chess fame at the university.

I wouldn't call the SP a NUMA architecture...  nor the Cray T3 machines...
Nor several others that depend mainly on message-passing to emulate a slow
form of shared memory.

>
>>BTW memory latency has been constant for 20+ years now.  But as the speed of
>>the processors goes up, memory becomes relatively slower.  So long as we
>>use capacitors for bit storage, this is going to continue to remain a big
>>issue.
>Yep. But I was commenting on the specifics of the Hammer implementation. And the
>memory controller is on chip and some of the overhead will be reduced due to the
>fact that parts of it will run faster at higher speeds. It won't reduce the
>memory specific latency though. And the speedup will be bounded by the memory
>subsystem.
> As for the cost of the system. I wouldn't know. But this is a comodity level
>system. The HyperTransport bus could end up being mass produced on a scale never
>seen before. Excepting the PCI bus maybe.
> When I look at it it feels like I'm getting another chance of aquiring a
>Transputer based computer.
>
>MvH Dan Andersson

Hopefully we will see some real numbers soon...  But a memory controller on
chip speaks to problems with more than one chip...




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