Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 16:19:01 09/26/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 26, 2003 at 18:34:12, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>On September 26, 2003 at 18:22:32, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 26, 2003 at 17:46:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On September 26, 2003 at 16:49:22, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 23:02:20, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 12:53:42, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:41:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:15:09, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 08:26:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>ICGA asked me to Call for participation in the world championship 2003.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>So far only 3 programs subscribed to join the world championship computerchess.
>>>>>>>>>DIEP is one of them, i guess Brutus the other one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And there three types of people: those who can count and those who can not.
>>>>>>>>José (:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>P.S. Good luck and lots of fun the world championship!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ah just had email from Stefan, they all didn't know you had to register 'so
>>>>>>>soon'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Usually world champs most things get organized at the tournament day itself,
>>>>>>>i remember especially the paniccing phase 1 short before the world champs
>>>>>>>started in October 1997, Paris :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not a single organizer there from the home organisation (so not ICGA) spoke a
>>>>>>>word English (and my english isn't that good either, for sure in 1997 it was
>>>>>>>horror & co too), Dutch or German and my French is horrible, so i just sat
>>>>>>>down at a chair, installed my computer and just guessed what the hand movements
>>>>>>>of the home organisation meant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>They must have guessed in advance to only receive French speaking participants,
>>>>>>>a normal assumption for French organisers :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's really unfair. The 1997 World Championship organization in Paris was
>>>>>>great. Remember that we were playing not in some obscure university hall, we
>>>>>>were playing in the "Palais de la Bourse".
>>>>>
>>>>>There were good things and bad things. i bet it was great for french speaking.
>>>>>
>>>>>bad was all the neonazi demonstrations and the real long waiting times to just
>>>>>get past the 2 security checks each time.
>>>>>
>>>>>bad was not having any internet there or any other contacts to the outside
>>>>>world, i would not be able to imagine in 2003 to be without internet.
>>>>>
>>>>>publicity was real bad of the tournament.
>>>>>
>>>>>nothing online. really nothing. i remember thorsten czub phoning during the
>>>>>rounds to the outside world at his mobile phone the results, otherwise they
>>>>>wouldn't even know the results.
>>>>>
>>>>>So publicity was non existing.
>>>>>
>>>>>Considering the huge staff of frenchmen running in panic mode around during the
>>>>>whole tournament that was really a bloody shame, but what we would call here
>>>>>'typical french chaosmanagement' :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Bad was that it took so long to just get outside of the building to just get 1
>>>>>small bread for example.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good was that each morning when walking to the tournament hall i could order for
>>>>>if i remember well 6 franc or something a big fresh bread at a breadshop. That
>>>>>tasted real good!
>>>>>
>>>>>bad was fact that there was still too many world titles then. There were just 3
>>>>>competitors if i remember well for the professional world title. Virtual chess,
>>>>>CSTal and Fritz.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good was that after a few days there was very cheap drinks IN the tournament
>>>>>hall supplied by organisation.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good was that it was possible to walk around without problems in the tournament
>>>>>hall, in 2001 maastricht for example i found the location a bloody shame. They
>>>>>corrected that great in 2002 though in Maastricht.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>OK, so in short the good parts were the french bread and free drinks and that it
>>>>was possible to walk during the rounds.
>>>>
>>>>If you like the french bread you should try our chess programs. Some of them
>>>>would give you a good run for the money. ;)
>>>
>>>Well meeting each culture at a world champs is real important and leaves an
>>>impression that lasts forever.
>>>
>>>But the french bread,.... everyone must try it :)
>>>
>>>But the Tiger, well perhaps it plays me to french bread, so let's not try it too
>>>soon :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>The main problem I remember there was AMD. They sponsored the event and provided
>>>>>
>>>>>Oh the hardware, well Kallisto was sponsored a PII300 by intel. Kallisto however
>>>>>was still 16 bits and way faster (like 50% or some insane big diff) on the
>>>>>233Mhz K7 that Jan Louwman had managed to get too.
>>>>>
>>>>>So officially Kallisto ran on that PII300 but in reality diep ran at it. You
>>>>>couldn't get that cpu in any shop at that time.
>>>>>
>>>>>When i entered with that machine the tournament hall i was amazed to see that
>>>>>half the tournament was carrying a PII300 with him :)
>>>>>
>>>>>The toledo2000 programmer was not understanding that his DOS just went up to
>>>>>64MB hashtables instead of the full 128MB that he had on the PII300 machine :)
>>>>>
>>>>>But i guess the real bad thing from world champs 1997 in my memory is fact that
>>>>>only search depth mattered there really, assuming a debugged program. I lost
>>>>>game after game thanks to simple tactical errors. 8 ply search for a few moves
>>>>>and DANG opponent starts smiling "i win a piece!".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ah well, so that can be put in the "good" column I guess: you discovered there
>>>>that in chess your are helpless if your opponent outsearches you significantly,
>>>>and that you'd better debug your program before the start of the tournament.
>>>
>>>it was tested in 1997 with 1000 games auto232 by Jan Louwman. Without that i bet
>>>it would have crashed like so many others :)
>>>
>>>Well crashing is part of the fun...
>>>
>>>Nowadays some find it bad to crash, but it's part of life.
>>>
>>>Ask the winners of the previous 2 world champs. I remember they crashed last 18
>>>games they played there around 30 times?
>>>
>>>>You could have discovered that at home, but well. Wisdom is wisdom.
>>>
>>>You don't want to miss the fun 500 processors are going to give in that respect.
>>>
>>>In fact i might get 1 or 2 testruns at 500 processors for 1 hour or so.
>>>
>>>Coming monday morning very early i will have 1 such testruns (those get
>>>scheduled automatically but because the machine is never empty some
>>>administrator must clean by hand the whole machine and let this run, so
>>>practically it only happens when they have maintenance at the machine) so that's
>>>very interesting.
>>>
>>>Some countrymen of yours can't in fact wait for that output. Expected
>>>efficiencyspeedup is a bit less than 37.3%, so you can do the match with 125GB
>>>hashtables at 1 position from
>>>
>>>Nataf - Svidler (Fressinet)
>>>
>>>As you know i managed to help Nataf in FIDE world champs by 'psychologically
>>>motivating' him.
>>>
>>>Hopefully this 500 processor run helps too:
>>> http://www.nao-cc.com/naocc/index.html
>>>
>>>That is what it will analyze some line that is in the 'psychological' interest
>>>of my friend :)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In RGCC at the time some people like Bruce and Bob just posted their believe
>>>>>that search depth mattered and the rest was not important at all, especially a
>>>>>good evaluation wouldn't matter at all.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well how they were proven wrong later of course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>As far as I know nothing has been proved, either way, in this area.
>>>
>>>That is not real true.
>>>
>>>Please delete your current evaluation function and replace it with tiger 1.0
>>>evaluation functions, preprocessing etc.
>>>
>>>Just make the search the same like it is now and go compare.
>>>
>>>I bet that it will not kick any commercial engine that tiger 1.0 when compared
>>>to the current version.
>>>
>>>>The strength of computers at chess comes from a combination of good search
>>>>techniques and reasonable evaluation, with some emphasis still today on search.
>>>>Don't forget what you have learned in 1997...
>>>
>>>No that's not true. You *can* get another 5 ply easily by using a dumber
>>>evaluation function type Cilkchess.
>>
>>plies are unimportant amd it means nothing.
>>It even does not mean tactical strength because if you prune good lines by null
>>move pruning you can miss tactics.
>>
>>Christophe also did not say that reasonable evaluation is unimportant so your
>>example proves nothing.
>>
>>Uri
>
>the only improvements i see in tiger since version 0.0001 which impressed
>tactically in paderborn a lot of years ago when operated by Thorsten Czub,
>is that tigers evaluation has become better.
>
>I see not a single other improvement in tiger that i find worth mentionning.
Fortunately I do not work in the purpose of impressing you.
If I did, maybe I would look for a 501 processors computer... That's as
impressive as useless, but maybe some like it...
Christophe
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