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Subject: Re: About CC-events in the US

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 11:23:10 11/20/03

Go up one level in this thread


On November 20, 2003 at 08:59:25, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On November 20, 2003 at 06:57:30, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On November 19, 2003 at 18:12:12, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On November 19, 2003 at 17:30:36, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 12:02:56, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:51:59, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:34:17, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:30:37, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 11:06:21, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 10:55:26, martin fierz wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On November 19, 2003 at 10:31:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>here.  Makes a _lot_ of sense.  And it shows just how "world" aware the
>>>>>>>>>>>ICCA actually is.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>i don't really want to be involved in this thread, but i can't resist this
>>>>>>>>>>one...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>disclaimer: of course it would be much more sensible to have the championship in
>>>>>>>>>>the US from time to time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>cheapo: so the ICCA does something which is not good for *one* country
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's one cheapo that doesn't work.  It would be like 2000 years ago holding
>>>>>>>>>gladiator events that discommode only one country, Rome.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>MH
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>of course it works, and you just invite the next follow up cheapo ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2000 years ago the romans were perhaps not aware that there was much more to the
>>>>>>>>world than rome. sometimes one gets the feeling that the US citizens are no
>>>>>>>>different in this respect...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ok, how about holding a world chess championship that only inconviences
>>>>>>>Russians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I think you get the idea.  :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>MH
>>>>>>
>>>>>>of course i get the idea! i put a disclaimer on my first post stating clearly
>>>>>>that IMO the championship should be held in the US from time to time, and i
>>>>>>labelled my posts as cheapos :-)
>>>>>>i thought that made it clear enough...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>going back to your comparison with the russians: exactly how many american
>>>>>>programs are in the top 10 of the SSDF list?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The SSDF list only uses consumer-grade technology to test programs.  Programs
>>>>>tuned to that limited technology will always top that list.  That is why the
>>>>>list is of limited importance.  A real WCCC is going to attract high performance
>>>>>projects, not just consumer oriented projects.  This is what the New World has
>>>>>always offered.  But, Old Worlders have a problem with that I guess.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do any such New World high performance projects exist ?
>>>
>>>
>>>Crafty can be such a project on practically a moment's notice (I believe).
>>>Other programs are similiarly suited.  If the WCCC comes to North America, the
>>>projects will materialize.  This was the benefit of limiting the event to every
>>>three years and making it a practical event, length-wise.  It provided time for
>>>the husbanding of resources, planning, development and sponsorship along with a
>>>relative rarity that made the event that much more important and compelling (and
>>>thus an easier sell to the people with the expensive resources).
>>>
>>>The current cycle with it's awkward timing and extended length, along with it's
>>>persistent location in Europe (not to mention its archaic modus operendi) seems
>>>calculated to favor European commercial interests while excluding projects from
>>>North America.
>>>
>>>Perhaps it is the punishment Europeans are determined to mete out to us for the
>>>DB2 triumph, which seems to be universally reviled overseas.  EU types are maybe
>>>fed up with the dominance of North American, high-end computer chess projects.
>>>
>>
>>There's nothing to be fed up with, since the dominance is long gone.
>
>Yes, the ICGA have seen to that by keeping the WCCC out of North America and
>making inconvenient for North Americans to participate.  Nicely done, IMO.
>
>>Hong Kong
>>1995 was the swansong. There were 4 of them there, but losing to Fritz, and even
>>before that, in 1992, to Schroeder, underscored that they have lost their
>>advantage and so their reason in life.
>
>
>That is a not entirely unreasonable opinion, though still incorrect, IMO.  Bob
>addressed the competitive issue in another thread here.  There are American
>programs suited to high performance hardware which would have a definite
>advantage, even over your project.  Yes?
>

Sure. There are tens if not hundreds of Americans who would make me look silly
with multi-million $ projects and $10 million hardware. The only thing holding
them back is that they can't afford to go to Europe.

It has been tested once in a Rebel vs. Crafty match where Crafty was given a 100
to 1 time advantage. The match was aborted after Rebel won the first game.


>But that's not good for business, ist it?  It looks to me that the status quo
>favors your interests.
>

So it's the money motive working here ? This would be an object lesson on how to
bring industry giants and ivy-league colleges to their knees: make them travel,
or make them get a $50,000 sponsor.

Amir


>Matt
>
>
>>
>>To remind you, the current world champion is not European.
>>
>>Amir



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