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Subject: Re: GM Blatny Vs Ferret(C) Games: questionable time control

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:40:26 02/20/99

Go up one level in this thread


On February 20, 1999 at 04:25:58, Mark Young wrote:

>On February 20, 1999 at 03:29:57, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>
>>
>>On February 20, 1999 at 00:29:35, KarinsDad wrote:
>>
>>>On February 19, 1999 at 22:12:49, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>>5 5 is harder for a program than 5 0.
>>
>>>As for Bruce's statement, please explain. Do you mean merely against humans
>>>(since the humans get more time and are better with more time) or is there some
>>>other meaning?
>>
>>I am talking about human versus computer.  In computer versus computer it
>>obviously doesn't matter what happens.
>>
>>In zero-increment games, programs don't manage time very well, but they don't
>>run out, because they simply move when they have time.  I never worry about my
>>program having time problems.  It spent on the order of a minute per move at the
>>beginning of those games, and the spectators were grumbling about this, because
>>they thought the program was using too much, but it had plenty left at the end
>>of the game.
>>
>>Some people have problems with time discipline, and they flag.  This is the most
>>senseless aspect of the human game, and it is astonishing to find it even in
>>very strong players.
>>
>>It is hard for a person to run out of time in a 5 5, because they always start
>>with at least five seconds on the clock for each move, no matter how close they
>>came to flagging on the previous move.  They are forced to use time discipline.
>>
>>In a 5 0 game, a program will have less time per move, obviously, than it would
>>in a 5 5 game, but there is also a mad scramble at the end where the human, even
>>has little time and has to deal with something that has more time and won't roll
>>over and die.
>>
>>In a 5 5 they can get an advantage and convert it.
>>
>>If you automate a program and tell it to play only humans at 5 0, and take
>>another one and tell it to play only humans at 5 5, the first one will usually
>>have a significantly higher rating, I think.
>
>I agree, and is why I always thought it unwise to compare and draw conclusions
>between manual and automated program ratings on ICC, FICS etc. at blitz time
>controls.
>
>Being able to play 5 0 and 3 0 games without loss of time and without losing on
>time is a big advantage for the automated programs when playing strong humans or
>other manual programs.
>
>Mark



yes, but the 'automatic' programs have problems as well.  They have to adjust
their time _by themselves" without a human to say 'speed up' you are getting low
on time.  And even more important, an automatic program has to contend with an
IM that plays 30 games in a row, fishing for an opening bust.  Manual operators
won't allow that and stop after they see what is happening.

Putting a program on ICC 'automatically' will expose a _lot_ of shortcomings
in the way it plays that are not apparent when playing a few games per day.



>>
>>I've watched mine win many games where it has a bad position, but several
>>minutes left on the clock (in a 5 0 game), and the opponent has little or no
>>time.  In a 5 5 it loses all of these games.
>>
>>bruce



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