Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:21:54 10/19/99
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On October 19, 1999 at 14:02:51, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On October 19, 1999 at 13:49:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 19, 1999 at 12:56:39, KarinsDad wrote: >> >>> >>>Have to disagree with you on this one Robert. >>> >>>Although what you say makes sense on the surface, it does not make sense with >>>regard to these specific circumstances. >>> >>>It was very controversial of Dr. Hsu to use the name Deep Blue Junior when there >>>is the obvious confusion with Junior. It was just as controversial of Amir Ban >>>to use Deep Junior (with a similar motif, Deep means further down the graph in >>>chess programs). However, I can understand Amir's desire to show that what is >>>good for the goose is good for the gander. >> >>Exactly _how_ would "Deep Blue Junior" be confused with "Junior"? I had "Jr" >>after my name for _years_ until my dad died, because he was also "Robert Hyatt" >>and you can't have two with the same name, in the same family, and not have >>mass confusion. >> >>Feel free to disagree, as that is your perogative. However, note that the >>entire USA disagrees with your position. Hence all the "Jr" products that >>are over here, from crock pots to crack pots, actually. > >I tink that this is a key point in the argument. Junior, an Israeli program >commercialized by a German enterprise, is not only sold in the US, and "Junior" >as a qualifier means nothing in Spanish, French, Italian... Like you, I have the >same name of my father, but I never carried the Jr. after. Neither does my >eldest son. It wouldn't make any sense in Spanish. > >What you argue would be valid if the whole world were the US, but it isn't. > >Enrique > Of course. But "deep blue" came from the US. It was built here, by people living here, and it fits right in with the thousands of other "junior" products on the market. I don't claim to want to force the entire world to follow in the path of the US. But those of us living here have this pretty 'ingrained' into us by the time we finish school. :) >>> >>>Regardless of word usage in the U.S., when one product has a similar name to >>>another product and both products compete in the U.S., the product which had the >>>name first will often win in a court of law. The reason is that the assumption >>>is made that the second product is attempting to acquire market share based on >>>name recognition of the first product. >> >> >>But _not_ with the word "junior". Any more than you can claim the name "2nd >>edition" and prevent all the book publishers from producing a new edition with >>that as part of the title. It is simply commonplace. I would be happy to >>produce a list of 10,000 products that exist as "productname" and "productname >>junior" if you'd like. This is no different, IMHO. >> >> >> >> >>> >>>If there was a maul called Junior and someone else then later came up with Paul >>>Junior, I'm sure the company with the one called Junior would win in a court of >>>law and the other product would have to change it's name to Mini-Paul or >>>somesuch. >> >>Sure... but if someone named it just "junior" they wouldn't get anywhere as >>"paul junior" is accepted here. >> >> >> >>> >>>And your analogy with "2" is an attempt to go to a nearly illogical extreme with >>>an example. Very few people name ANY product based solely on a number or symbol >>>(e.g. Pepsi One is not called 1). However, there are often products named on >>>single words, regardless of other meanings of those words (such as Junior). >>> >>>KarinsDad :) >> >> >>It was just an attempt to show how illogical the arguments are. IE why not >>name something "new and improved" and then dare Proctor and Gamble to produce a >>"New and Improved Tide"... Junior was used in the above manner _long_ before >>it was adopted as the name of a chess program. We played "cray blitz junior" >>in a chess tournament in 1984 at the US Open. Because we couldn't get a real >>multi-cpu cray, and wanted everyone to know we were running on a very slow one- >>cpu cray. When something has been done for so long a time, trying to copyright >>a common name modifier like "junior" just won't work. Particularly when the >>word "junior" is used in such a common way (at least in the USA and Canada). >> >>Another choice might be to name a product "free" or "light". We both know what >>those mean, right? Free means either no sugar nor no fat, depending on context, >>light means low sugar/fat. Totally accepted usage even recognized by the US >>department of agriculture, and monitored by the food and drug administration >>here. So someone can come along and name something "light" and then challenge >>everyone with a "1000 Island Light" name? :) >> >>Light, free, junior, senior, etc are all treated the same over here...
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