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Subject: Re: What approach do you use to handle castling/en passant for repetition?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:00:32 02/27/00

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On February 27, 2000 at 14:03:11, Richard A. Fowell (fowell@netcom.com) wrote:

>On February 27, 2000 at 11:19:04, Daniel Clausen wrote:
>
>>Hi
>>
>>On February 27, 2000 at 00:15:14, Richard A. Fowell (fowell@netcom.com) wrote:
>>
>>>I noticed today that six of the seven chess programs that I tried
>>>(three freeware, four commercial) failed to pass the two tests below.
>>>
>>>(my congratulations to Will Bryant, who programmed Screamer right!)
>>>
>>>The others don't understand how castling rights and en passant capture
>>>rights effect the ability to claim draw by three-fold repetition of position.
>>>
>>>The FIDE Laws of Chess (1997, but unchanged from when I learned chess 26 years
>>>ago) say:
>>
>>[snip]
>>>#1 Check for knowledge of castling rights on triple repetition draw =
>>>
>>>1. Nf3 Nf6
>>>2. Rg1 Rg8
>>>3. Rh1 Rh8   (second occurrence of this visible piece pattern, but first
>>>occurrence w/o castling rights)
>>>4. Rg1 Rg8
>>>5. Rh1 Rh8 ( No draw, yet - this is the original piece pattern, but there
>>>             both sides had castling rights. To put it another way, the EPD
>>>             strings for the starting position and this one are different.)
>>>6. Rg1 Rg8 - draw by triple repetition of position.
>>>
>>>#2 Check for knowledge of en passant opportunity of triple repetition draw =
>>>
>>>1.  a4  a6
>>>2.  a5  b4 [ This should be b5, as sargon points out. - Richard ]
>>>3. Nf3 Nf6
>>>4. Ng1 Ng8 (second occurrence of this visible piece pattern, but first
>>>occurrence w/o en passant capture option)
>>>5. Nf3 Nf6
>>>6. Ng1 Ng8 (again, no draw yet - there is no en passant capture possible here,
>>>            as there was after Black's second move).
>>>7. Nf3 - draw by triple repetition of position.
>>
>>>Which chess programs (other than Screamer) get these right?
>>
>>Not that anyone cares, but my engine gets these right. :)
>
>Actually, I care - for two reasons. First, it is nice to think that I'm
>not the only one to think it is worth doing this right. Second, it might
>help other programmers address this if those who do handle this could
>present a simple way of doing so.
>
>So - what do you use? Robert Hyatt says he includes castling rights/en passant
>in his hash. Is that what you do?

I would hope that _everybody_ includes castling/EP status in their hash
signature.  Not doing so invites a tremendous number of false matches that
will certainly affect play.

Whether they use the hash signature for repetition is another subject, although
I would suspect it to be very common.  But if it is, then someone has a serious
problem since you said several failed your test, which implies that the castle/
EP status is not handled correctly.

I don't believe this can be safely overlooked, because the wrong repetition
value is a tiny part of a much bigger problem, that of not correctly hashing
positions...  the former may not happen often.  The latter happens thousands
of times every search.  Often enough that it will _definitely_ affect the
root score enough to make a difference.

>
>
>>But only
>>if blacks 2nd move in the 2nd mini-game is b5. (instead of b4)
>>
>
> Quite right - too many years of descriptive notation for me, I fear.
>>Kind regards,
>> -sargon



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