Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 15:32:16 11/16/98
Go up one level in this thread
On November 16, 1998 at 17:46:32, Mark Young wrote:
>On November 16, 1998 at 17:04:43, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On November 16, 1998 at 13:47:14, Alois Ganter wrote:
>>
>>>On November 16, 1998 at 12:54:52, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>YOU ARE WRONG.
>>>
>>>That is not the question. The question is weather Hans-Christian Lykke or Czub
>>>is wrong. I will now buy Junior to test it myself against Genius5. I think who
>>>has not tried self should shut up in this discussion and so I shut up until
>>>later.
>>>
>>>Alois
>>
>>I am not saying that Likke is wrong. It may work on his computer and not on
>>mine, or yours, or Thorsten's.
>>
>>Amir himself said that the bug exists.
>
>No one is saying a bug does not exists, but how does Thorsten draw the
>conclusion that because it has a bug that sometimes causes this, this is showing
>that Chessbase and Junior 5 are cheating.
Thorsten did not say Junior (Amir) is cheating.
>And because Junior 5's autoplayer has
>a bug this proves that Fritz 5 is doing the something and proves that Fritz 5
>also cheated.
F5 autoplayer has been reported to have the same kind of bug several months ago.
That is: somebody has found that sometimes F5 opponent was unable to save its
game. This "somebody" was not Thorsten.
Same company, same bug, secret autoplayer... Too much for me! This time I think
it is normal that we ask ourselves some questions.
And once again, all this trouble would not happen if ChessBase did not send a
SECRET autoplayer to the SSDF.
>Know facts
>
>1. Junior 5 has a bug in the autoplayer.
>
>2. Fritz 5 and Junior 5 have different autoplayers.
>
>3. SSDF is not having this problem with the Junior 5 autoplayer.
>
>4. Ed said that the Fritz 5 autoplayer was "clean"
I guess you are going to have a message from Ed for this, because he did not say
that.
>Questions
>
>1. How can Junior 5 be cheating on the SSDF list when SSDF is not having any
>problems with the other programs saving their games?
First, there is no claim that Junior (Amir) is cheating.
But even Amir recognized there is a bug. So it is certainly machine dependant,
and the fact that somebody from the SSDF claims that he does not have the bug
does not mean it does not exist.
Thorsten told me, before this topic appeared on CCC, that Tiger has been unable
to save its games against Junior 5.
He did not jump on his Internet computer to make this public here. He just
informed me. Do you think he is lying?
>2. How can anyone draw the conclusion that since Junior 5's autoplayer has
>somekind of problem on some computers, this shows that Fritz 5's autoplayer was
>doing the same thing?
Nobody needs to make this conclusion.
The problem with Fritz5 was reported several months ago by somebody else that
has tested the Fritz5 autoplayer.
But by reading your sentence suddenly I realize that both autoplayers come from
the same company. Thanks for the idea. :)
>3. How does anyone draw the conclusion that because a piece of software has a
>bug, this proves intent that it was no mistake, just because a bug exist.
In the case of Junior, Amir's behaviour shows clearly that there is no
intention.
But there is a question because a previous secret autoplayer from the same
company had a related strange behaviour.
When you don't want people to suspect you of doing something nasty, you just
release a public autoplayer.
I am not telling there was an intention in the case of Fritz5.
I would maybe change my mind if we discover one day that Fritz5 with a public
autoplayer is much weaker than the F5 that was tested on the SSDF with a secret
one.
Of course this will not happen, hey?
Christophe
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