Author: Mark Young
Date: 17:22:03 11/16/98
Go up one level in this thread
On November 16, 1998 at 18:32:16, Christophe Theron wrote: >On November 16, 1998 at 17:46:32, Mark Young wrote: > >>On November 16, 1998 at 17:04:43, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On November 16, 1998 at 13:47:14, Alois Ganter wrote: >>> >>>>On November 16, 1998 at 12:54:52, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>YOU ARE WRONG. >>>> >>>>That is not the question. The question is weather Hans-Christian Lykke or Czub >>>>is wrong. I will now buy Junior to test it myself against Genius5. I think who >>>>has not tried self should shut up in this discussion and so I shut up until >>>>later. >>>> >>>>Alois >>> >>>I am not saying that Likke is wrong. It may work on his computer and not on >>>mine, or yours, or Thorsten's. >>> >>>Amir himself said that the bug exists. >> >>No one is saying a bug does not exists, but how does Thorsten draw the >>conclusion that because it has a bug that sometimes causes this, this is showing >>that Chessbase and Junior 5 are cheating. > > >Thorsten did not say Junior (Amir) is cheating. You need to go back and read what Thorsten wrote, because it is clear to me that what he is saying. > > > >>And because Junior 5's autoplayer has >>a bug this proves that Fritz 5 is doing the something and proves that Fritz 5 >>also cheated. > > >F5 autoplayer has been reported to have the same kind of bug several months ago. Really, and now we know the that report was wrong, Ed checked it out and found no problems with it. >That is: somebody has found that sometimes F5 opponent was unable to save its >game. This "somebody" was not Thorsten. I can only go by what Ed reported. He is the only expert I know that has seen it. > >Same company, same bug, secret autoplayer... Too much for me! This time I think >it is normal that we ask ourselves some questions. What kind of logic is that, same company yes, but do you have proof it is the same bug, please post the proof. How do you know its the same bug when you said that the Fritz 5 autoplayer is secret. Do you have E.S.P. How can it be the same bug when the Fritz 5 and Junior 5 autoplayers are different. That does not jive with the facts. > >And once again, all this trouble would not happen if ChessBase did not send a >SECRET autoplayer to the SSDF. Please explain your logic here, What does the Junior 5 and Fritz 5 autoplayer have to do with each other. They are different programs. I know they come from the same company, but they are different programs. > > > >>Known facts >> >>1. Junior 5 has a bug in the autoplayer. >> >>2. Fritz 5 and Junior 5 have different autoplayers. >> >>3. SSDF is not having this problem with the Junior 5 autoplayer. >> >>4. Ed said that the Fritz 5 autoplayer was "clean" > > >I guess you are going to have a message from Ed for this, because he did not say >that. I think that what I read. And I read it was "clean" But if I am wrong Ed can correct me. I want the facts to be correct. > > > > >>Questions >> >>1. How can Junior 5 be cheating on the SSDF list when SSDF is not having any >>problems with the other programs saving their games? > > >First, there is no claim that Junior (Amir) is cheating. Really, I am not the only one that thinks this is what Thorsten is saying. > >But even Amir recognized there is a bug. Who is saying there is not a bug, not me. Check out fact #1 So it is certainly machine dependant, >and the fact that somebody from the SSDF claims that he does not have the bug >does not mean it does not exist. No one is saying that some kind of bug does not exist, only that SSDF is not having a problem with it. BECAUSE IT IS MACHINE DEPENDANT. > >Thorsten told me, before this topic appeared on CCC, that Tiger has been unable >to save its games against Junior 5. So what, we know there is a bug that happens on some machines. > >He did not jump on his Internet computer to make this public here. He just >informed me. Do you think he is lying? I never said he was lying about having problems with the autoplayer, Only that his conclusions are not based on any kind of known facts. > > > >>2. How can anyone draw the conclusion that since Junior 5's autoplayer has >>somekind of problem on some computers, this shows that Fritz 5's autoplayer was >>doing the same thing? > > >Nobody needs to make this conclusion. > >The problem with Fritz5 was reported several months ago by somebody else that >has tested the Fritz5 autoplayer. > >But by reading your sentence suddenly I realize that both autoplayers come from >the same company. Thanks for the idea. :) I can see you are as loose with the facts as Thorsten, What a reckless statement to make. By reading your sentence I suddenly realize that fair play and a honest discussion about other programs means nothing to you. I guess for some it is worth being dishonest, if they think it can give their arguement more sting. > > > > >>3. How does anyone draw the conclusion that because a piece of software has a >>bug, this proves intent that it was no mistake, just because a bug exist. > > >In the case of Junior, Amir's behaviour shows clearly that there is no >intention. Correct I agree. > >But there is a question because a previous secret autoplayer from the same >company had a related strange behaviour. How do you know it has the same strange behaviour, when it is secret. You can not base this conclusion on any kind of facts. > >When you don't want people to suspect you of doing something nasty, you just >release a public autoplayer. And if you don't release a public autoplayer it gives people like Thorsten and I guess you the right to make up anything you want about the company and the autoplay. Because you did not like the fact that it was not public. I'm sorry I have I problem with those kind of ethics. > >I am not telling there was an intention in the case of Fritz5. I hope not, but its a shame you seem to condone the conclusions made by Thorsten that say just that. > >I would maybe change my mind if we discover one day that Fritz5 with a public >autoplayer is much weaker than the F5 that was tested on the SSDF with a secret >one. > >Of course this will not happen, hey? > > > > Christophe
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