Author: Uri Blass
Date: 02:20:38 05/10/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 10, 2004 at 05:00:46, martin fierz wrote: >On May 08, 2004 at 11:51:12, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 08, 2004 at 10:50:57, Anthony Cozzie wrote: >> >>>On May 08, 2004 at 07:18:27, Vasik Rajlich wrote: >>> >>>>On May 08, 2004 at 04:34:40, Sune Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>You are absulutely right. >>>>>>>It is obvious that humans already solved chess so they know if a move is a >>>>>>>blunder or not a blunder so you can be sure that all the question marks are >>>>>>>correct. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>It is also obvious that the number of mistakes is what decides the game so if >>>>>>>your opponent did 2 mistakes you can let yourself to do one mistake like letting >>>>>>>him to force mate and you are not going to lose. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>:_( >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Uri >>>>>> >>>>>>You know, Uri, I have never seen you do anything but post how other people are >>>>>>wrong (never with any reasons of course). Many other people have noticed your >>>>>>unending flood of negativity. It is difficult to consider this post as anything >>>>>>other than a flame. It appears I am going to have to take off the kid gloves >>>>>>and dispose of you. >>>>> >>>>>Isn't it natural to only post if you disagree? >>>>> >>>>>Anyway, I suspect Uri has a point. >>>>>It's not unusual for computers to play "unatural" moves, just think of the >>>>>Hedgehog Junior played against Kasparov. >>>>> >>>>>All the time the GM's were saying how strange Junior's moves were, how "it >>>>>showed no understanding of the position" blah blah blah. >>>>> >>>>>So please explain why Kasparov suddenly had to fight for a draw after 10 >>>>>questionmark moves from Junior! >>>>> >>>>>-S. >>>> >>>>I never thought this day would come - but I agree with Uri here. :-) >>>> >>>>Sports aren't about beautiful play. Sports are about winning. If someone is >>>>playing ugly, and winning, then it's your sense of aesthetics which needs to be >>>>reviewed. >>>> >>>>Computers have a long history of winning ugly. In the recent Fritz-Kasparov and >>>>Junior-Kasparov matches, the machines made many many more "mistakes" (according >>>>to human opinion) than Kasparov. But - if these mistakes aren't punished - are >>>>they really mistakes? Is it a mistake to leave Shaq wide open for three point >>>>shots? (Or send him to the line for "free" throws?) It's impossible to speak >>>>about objectivity here. You can only look at the results. >>>> >>>>Vas >>> >>>Let's take a look at some of the moves the annotator didn't like: >>> >>>[D]r2q1rk1/pp1n1ppp/2pbpn2/3p3b/8/1P1PPNPP/PBPN1PB1/R2Q1RK1 b - - 0 10 >>> >>>Zappa plays the obvious 10 ...e5. Deep Blue played 10 ...h6. I won't call this >>>a bad move, but it's clearly a pass move. >> >>That isn't very convincing. Did you look at _your_ PV? move 4? :) >> >>Order doesn't mean much to alpha/beta as it scores positions, not moves as they >>are played. >> >>First impression is that h6 and e5 transpose to the _same_ position... >> >> >>> >>>1... e6-e5 2. e3-e4 Rf8-e8 3. Rf1-e1 Ra8-c8 4. a2-a4 h7-h6 5. Bb2-c3 Qd8-c7 6. >>>a4-a5 Bd6-c5 7. Qd1-b1 >>> = (0.25) Depth: 12/34 00:01:09.00 41299kN >>> >>>[D]r4rk1/pp1n1pp1/2pbpn1p/q2p3b/8/PP1PPNPP/1BPN1PB1/R3QRK1 b - - 0 12 >>> >>>Once again Zappa wants e5. Deep Blue played Bc7, which is a pass move at best, >>>and I would think the bishop is actually better on D6. >>> >>>1... e6-e5 2. c2-c4 Qa5-a6 3. d3-d4 e5-e4 4. Nf3-h4 Ra8-e8 5. Nh4-f5 Bd6-c7 6. >>>Ra1-c1 Nd7-b6 7. c4xd5 Nb6xd5 >>> = (0.24) Depth: 11/32 00:00:49.38 30722kN >> >>Same comment. Look at your move 5. :) >> >>You agree with DB more than you think... >> >> >>> >>>[D]r4rk1/ppbn1pp1/2p1pn1p/q2p3b/7N/PP1PP1PP/1BPN1PB1/R3QRK1 b - - 0 13 >>> >>>And Zappa is still dying for e5 :) Deep Blue played g5?, which cannot be >>>considered anything but a blunder. >> >>Kasparov said "this is black's only hope. Any other move simply loses. This >>makes it a fight." > >which makes it pretty clear that before something already went wrong for >black... if you have to play g5, even if it's still a fight, something is very >wrong. > >cheers > martin It is not clear for me. I know that pushing pawns near the king is bad in a lot of cases but it is not always bad and this is the reason that I do not have high scores against it. Uri
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