Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:10:25 05/20/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 20, 2004 at 11:14:49, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On May 19, 2004 at 18:08:44, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On May 19, 2004 at 17:18:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >> >>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:07:34, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On May 19, 2004 at 16:02:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>> >>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 15:55:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:31:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 13:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:14:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:07:45, Bryan Hofmann wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:33:50, Richard Pijl wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:05:54, Jouni Uski wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Number 1 favourite is missing, why? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Jouni >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Hydra is officially from the UAE. As I understood the sponsors do not allow >>>>>>>>>>>Hydra to participate in an event in Israel. >>>>>>>>>>>Richard. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Someone please tell me that this is a rumor or missunderstanding. They banned a >>>>>>>>>>chess engine from participation due to the country of its creator? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Exactly the opposite. We (organizers) told the Hydra team that they are welcomed >>>>>>>>>to play in Israel under the UAE flag. But apparently their sponsors decided that >>>>>>>>>they don't want to play in Israel. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Last time an engine was banned from participation due to the country of its >>>>>>>>>creator was in Jakarta WMCCC 1996. The Junior team was not allowed to play there >>>>>>>>>because Junior is an Israeli program. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I was under the impression that was not exactly the truth, the whold truth and >>>>>>>>nothing but the truth. In fact, Junior was expected there. I received a phone >>>>>>>>call in the wee hours of the morning from Bruce Moreland, asking me to help him >>>>>>>>contact Amir since they had not shown up. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I believe this was a case of "they didn't feel welcome and chose not to attend >>>>>>>>for that reason." IE I can't really fault someone for not wanting to fly a UAE >>>>>>>>flag in the middle of Israel either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So, IMHO it was more a matter of they didn't participate for many good reasons, >>>>>>>>but I don't think they were _prevented_ from participating... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Based on what I have read and heard, it was made clear to them that they cannot >>>>>>>play under the Israeli flag in Jakarta. In other words, they were prevented from >>>>>>>participation. Of course Amir or Shay can correct me if I'm wrong. >>>>>> >>>>>>Probably was (a) a sane decision to not fly an Israeli flag there and (b) a >>>>>>reasonable decision for them not to attend if they could not. As I said, a bit >>>>>>of both... >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>I quoted Shay Bushinsky in the following post: >>>>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?366082 >>>>> >>>>>Based on that, it was not a decision on behalf of the Junior team not to attend, >>>>>they were simply *banned* from participation. >>>>> >>>> >>>>reread what you posted. They were not "banned". >>>> >>>>Unless you redefine banned to mean something other than "not allowed". As I >>>>said, they could have participated, not representing Israel. >>> >>>"not representing Israel", in other words *banned* from playing as Israeli >>>representatives. What's hard to understand about that? >> >>Are you really that dense, or just acting so to prolong a discussion? >> >>"banned" means "not allowed to participate, _period_. It does not mean "not >>allowed to participate under flag XXX or anything else". It means "not allowed >>to participate." >> >>What is so hard to understand about using _proper_ definitions and terms? >> >>Yes they were _hindered_ from participating. Or they were even discouraged from >>participating. But they were not _banned_ from participating... >> >> >>> >>>The Hydra team was explicitly told that they are welcome to play under the UAE >>>flag. >>> >>>P.S. Of course I'm not criticizing the Hydra team, as they wanted to join. The >>>guys who prevented that were their UAE sponsors. >> >>Both decisions to not play are reasonable... > >And by the way, why is Hydra's political decision not to play in Israel >"reasonable"? > > > If I were asked to participate in a tournament in any Arab nation, do you _really_ think I would do so and fly the stars and bars over my monitor? And invite every radical in the world to drop by and leave a "gift"... I can see their point. There is a major Arab/Israeli conflict going on. I would be no more inclined to wave a UAE flag in Israel than I would waving an Israeli flag on the Gaza strip... might as well wear a t-shirt with a bullseye painted on the back, and a big sign that says "shoot this way"... Areas involved in conflict could give _anyone_ second thoughts... > > > >> >> >>> >>> >>>>I don't like that >>>>option and as I also said, I considered their not showing up as "a reasonable >>>>decision". >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I don't want >>>>>>>>>>to lead the discussion into a political debate here but if the above statement >>>>>>>>>>is true, this bigotry should not be condoned and further posting of this event >>>>>>>>>>should not be allowed here.
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