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Subject: Re: Where's Hydra?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:10:25 05/20/04

Go up one level in this thread


On May 20, 2004 at 11:14:49, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On May 19, 2004 at 18:08:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:18:11, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On May 19, 2004 at 17:07:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 16:02:53, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 15:55:04, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 14:31:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 13:29:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:14:12, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 06:07:45, Bryan Hofmann wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:33:50, Richard Pijl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On May 19, 2004 at 05:05:54, Jouni Uski wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Number 1 favourite is missing, why?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Jouni
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra is officially from the UAE. As I understood the sponsors do not allow
>>>>>>>>>>>Hydra to participate in an event in Israel.
>>>>>>>>>>>Richard.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Someone please tell me that this is a rumor or missunderstanding. They banned a
>>>>>>>>>>chess engine from participation due to the country of its creator?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Exactly the opposite. We (organizers) told the Hydra team that they are welcomed
>>>>>>>>>to play in Israel under the UAE flag. But apparently their sponsors decided that
>>>>>>>>>they don't want to play in Israel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Last time an engine was banned from participation due to the country of its
>>>>>>>>>creator was in Jakarta WMCCC 1996. The Junior team was not allowed to play there
>>>>>>>>>because Junior is an Israeli program.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I was under the impression that was not exactly the truth, the whold truth and
>>>>>>>>nothing but the truth.  In fact, Junior was expected there.  I received a phone
>>>>>>>>call in the wee hours of the morning from Bruce Moreland, asking me to help him
>>>>>>>>contact Amir since they had not shown up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I believe this was a case of "they didn't feel welcome and chose not to attend
>>>>>>>>for that reason."  IE I can't really fault someone for not wanting to fly a UAE
>>>>>>>>flag in the middle of Israel either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So, IMHO it was more a matter of they didn't participate for many good reasons,
>>>>>>>>but I don't think they were _prevented_ from participating...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Based on what I have read and heard, it was made clear to them that they cannot
>>>>>>>play under the Israeli flag in Jakarta. In other words, they were prevented from
>>>>>>>participation. Of course Amir or Shay can correct me if I'm wrong.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Probably was (a) a sane decision to not fly an Israeli flag there and (b) a
>>>>>>reasonable decision for them not to attend if they could not.  As I said, a bit
>>>>>>of both...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I quoted Shay Bushinsky in the following post:
>>>>>http://talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?366082
>>>>>
>>>>>Based on that, it was not a decision on behalf of the Junior team not to attend,
>>>>>they were simply *banned* from participation.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>reread what you posted.  They were not "banned".
>>>>
>>>>Unless you redefine banned to mean something other than "not allowed".  As I
>>>>said, they could have participated, not representing Israel.
>>>
>>>"not representing Israel", in other words *banned* from playing as Israeli
>>>representatives. What's hard to understand about that?
>>
>>Are you really that dense, or just acting so to prolong a discussion?
>>
>>"banned" means "not allowed to participate, _period_.  It does not mean "not
>>allowed to participate under flag XXX or anything else".  It means "not allowed
>>to participate."
>>
>>What is so hard to understand about using _proper_ definitions and terms?
>>
>>Yes they were _hindered_ from participating.  Or they were even discouraged from
>>participating.  But they were not _banned_ from participating...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>The Hydra team was explicitly told that they are welcome to play under the UAE
>>>flag.
>>>
>>>P.S. Of course I'm not criticizing the Hydra team, as they wanted to join. The
>>>guys who prevented that were their UAE sponsors.
>>
>>Both decisions to not play are reasonable...
>
>And by the way, why is Hydra's political decision not to play in Israel
>"reasonable"?
>
>
>

If I were asked to participate in a tournament in any Arab nation, do you
_really_ think I would do so and fly the stars and bars over my monitor?  And
invite every radical in the world to drop by and leave a "gift"...

I can see their point.

There is a major Arab/Israeli conflict going on.  I would be no more inclined to
wave a UAE flag in Israel than I would waving an Israeli flag on the Gaza
strip...

might as well wear a t-shirt with a bullseye painted on the back, and a big sign
that says "shoot this way"...

Areas involved in conflict could give _anyone_ second thoughts...


>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't like that
>>>>option and as I also said, I considered their not showing up as "a reasonable
>>>>decision".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I don't want
>>>>>>>>>>to lead the discussion into a political debate here but if the above statement
>>>>>>>>>>is true, this bigotry should not be condoned and further posting of this event
>>>>>>>>>>should not be allowed here.



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