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Subject: Re: best chess programmers

Author: Tom Kerrigan

Date: 17:42:21 07/20/00

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On July 20, 2000 at 18:05:19, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On July 20, 2000 at 13:44:12, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>
>>On July 19, 2000 at 21:24:27, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>>
>>>On July 19, 2000 at 21:05:18, walter irvin wrote:
>>>
>>>>my best 5 chess programmers
>>>>1.deep blue team (deep blue)
>>>>2.richard lang (all were good + 8 titles!!!!!!)
>>>>3.amir ban (deep junior)
>>>>4.frans morsch (fritz)
>>>>5.ed  (chess machine  and rebel)
>>>>
>>>>there are a few that get left off the list ,either they did not win a title or
>>>>they just could not keep pace with the better programs .
>>>
>>>Dont you have a spot for Dr Rober Hyatt on that list ? I could not begin to give
>>>you the correct order except Dr Hyatt has got to receive major
>>>attention/consideration !
>>
>>Hsu, Lang, Morsch, and Ed all have incredible history behind them. Hyatt
>>doesn't. I don't really consider Amir to be a legend (yet) and his name is
>>easily replaced with a number of others. Kittinger, Stanback, Bruce Moreland,
>>Christophe, Stefan, Uniakle, de Koening; sorry if I left anybody out. But I
>>consider any of these guys more impressive than Hyatt.
>>
>>-Tom
>
>Glad to see there's nothing personal going on on your end of the Bob - Tom
>equation.
>
>Bob gets credit for a lot of stuff:
>
>1) Writing Cray Blitz.  Was it the best program ever written?  Would it have
>performed against modern micros?  Who cares!  It was there, when it was there,
>it won two championships, it got into the news, it promoted its sponsor, and Bob
>gets credit for putting it all together.

Two points on this:
1) Was Bob the only person responsible for CB? I thought he had partners. Who
knows how much he really contributed to its strength. Lang, Morsch, etc. were on
their own.
2) CB ran on a Cray. If I'm not mistaken, "Blitz" was not extremely impressive.
If CB's competition was also running on Crays, who knows how it would have done.

>2) Writing Crafty.  Crafty isn't the world champion, but who cares, it's
>obviously a high-end program and it's open source!  It's been downloaded by a
>zillion people who either want to play against it or learn from the source, and
>thousands of people have played against it on the Internet and are playing
>against it right now.

Making your program open source is not a way to be a "great programmer." It
takes exactly zero effort to make a program open source.

>3) Being an Internet authority.  He has something to say about essentially
>everything technical.  He says it not to show how smart he is, or to put others
>down, but because he wants to help people solve problems and make their chess
>programs better.  If you ask Bob a question you get an answer, and it's the best
>answer he can give you, and he'll do work to get you the answer.  And this is
>not just a recent thing, he's been doing this since the Internet came of age and
>before.

I've seen Bob misunderstand/misread questions and post unrelated answers
(sometimes with bad data) so often that I think this argument is bogus too.
Anyway, what does answering questions have to do with being a great programmer,
either?

>4) Researching and publishing.  He's published useful articles on Cray Blitz, in
>a field where most published articles are not useful, especially early articles.
> He's also published several articles about Crafty and about general computer
>chess topics such as diminishing returns in search and parallel search.  This is
>stuff that anyone can learn from and many have.  Any computer chess library will
>contain articles written by Bob.

I'd say this is a gray area between being a good chess programmer and being a
good person. Sure, okay, publishing papers might get him in the running for a
top-5 position. But when you compare that to some of Lang's achievements, it
looks pretty weak.

-Tom



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