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Subject: Goliath Light, Gromit, Patzer, SOS, etc. commercially sold

Author: Theo van der Storm

Date: 15:35:08 08/28/01

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On August 28, 2001 at 11:46:37, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:

>On August 28, 2001 at 07:19:32, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On August 28, 2001 at 06:20:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On August 28, 2001 at 05:48:58, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>It's not the selling of the new talents cd that should be the point. You can
>>argue that the programmer hardly get anything from it.
>>
>>Follow this link and you have some real arguments why Gromit is commercial.
>>
>>http://213.191.70.91/shopd/index.html
>>
>>Tony

Remarkable!
DM 19,90 payable to a game-company for engines
Goliath Light, Gromit, Patzer, SOS, etc...
Was it there before the championship?

>I shouldn't consider someone being a professional chess programmer just because
>he'd earned a - more or less - minor amount of money years ago. (At least so I
>suspect)
>Profession means to me that you are getting a substantial part of your income
>through this. This is definitely not true for Gromit.
>
>Well, the usual discussion! The border between professional and amateur isn't
>exactly defined.
>
>In the wmccc event, a very natural definition could be, that everybody who'd
>payed the large entry fee for professionells, is a profi; the others are
>amateurs. Again, Gromit would fall into the amateur league.
>
>Uli

Come on!
The "real" professionals should be refused to enter the other categories.
Surely your "natural definition" was also not intended by the organisers:

[BEGIN QUOTE]
15. The entry fees for the Olympiad (including membership of the ICCA for 2002
for one person) shall be as follows:
Amateur: US $ 100 Semi-professional: US $ 250 Professional: US $ 500

"Amateur": programmers who have no commercial interest in their program, and are
not professional game programmers.
Applications for amateur classification must supply information to justify their
claim.

"Semi-professional": Any program submitted by an employee or associate from a
games-programming company. The
program's name must not be derived from or similar to a commercial product.

"Professional": A program whose name is the same as or derived from a commercial
product.
[END QUOTE]

1. Amateur:
   You cannot be an amateur if you earn money by the selling of your program,
   (that would be a commercial interest), so the amateurs cannot be receiving
   money from the game-company...
2. Semi-professional:
   Are you an associate of a games-programming company if you let them
   sell your program and receive some money for it?
   Unclear.
   Have the named programs become "commercial products" by advertising
   and selling them in the same way as the game-company's flagship-products?
   Yes, I think so!
   So the named programs cannot be semi-professionals.
3. Professional:
   Apparently the question if the programmers are heavily income-dependent
   on their game progams is NOT relevant to the organisers. Strange...

I feel the definitions need mending. My internet connection is about
to break due to idle(eh?) time, so I cannot give my proposed exact
definitions yet. Maybe later.

Theo van der Storm



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