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Subject: Re: Search for a human chess player who will KR vs KN Crafty!

Author: Rolf Tueschen

Date: 11:01:09 01/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 22, 2003 at 13:02:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On January 22, 2003 at 12:27:56, Dux Kazer wrote:
>
>>On January 22, 2003 at 12:06:37, Matthew Hull wrote:
>>
>>>On January 22, 2003 at 11:58:05, Christopher A. Morgan wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob,
>>>>
>>>>It shows me the abality of GK to negoiate a rule very favorable to him.
>>>>It is not at all certain that GK could, over the board, be certain of a
>>>>draw in a known draw position as determined with tablebases with, at least all
>>>>5 piece endings, and most likely some six piece endings. Now, in those
>>>>positions the game will end in a draw, which, in my view, is correct. This
>>>>does not address the situation where DJ sees a tablebase draw in its search and,
>>>>if it's losing trys to steer the game to that position.
>>>>
>>>>I like the rule. I do not see any contest between machine and man where
>>>>the machine looks up its move in a table, and waits for the human to make
>>>>a mistake.
>>>
>>>
>>>It is possible the machine could see a tablebase draw which a human would not
>>>know how to "solve" and thus lose the drawn position.  The human would deserve
>>>the loss.  This is the point of the man/machine contest.
>>>
>>
>> Oh Yes... but let the machine play without the tablebases and it will lose even
>>simple knight vs rook draw for sure, not to say KRP vs KR..
>
>Not necessarily.  Some programs can play krp vs kr pretty well without tables.
>I have
>special code to handle just this case, for example.  I'm sure others do too.
>
>I'd play _anybody_ KR vs KN with crafty having the KN side...  and not expect to
>lose.


Another challenge to human chess players. Hopefully someone bites. I'd like to
see this one too!

Marvelous.

Rolf Tueschen


>
>>
>>>If the possibility of a game like this is so remote, then why have the rule in
>>>the first place?
>>>
>>>It is a bad rule, IMO.
>>>
>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>>That the machine has a huge opening book is somewhat similar,
>>>>but as GK has a tremendous knowledge of openings it seems fair that the
>>>>machine have a similar knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>We know nothing about the opening book for DJ. And, apparently, there are no
>>>>rules for the opening book.   I would like to see a rule that limits DJ's
>>>>opening book to a set number of moves, like 10-15 moves. As far as we know
>>>>DJ's book may be all games played by all strong players who have ever played the
>>>>game through to the final move.  Where is the contest if the machine
>>>>just looks up its move in a table?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On January 22, 2003 at 11:06:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 22, 2003 at 05:12:52, Francesco Di Tolla wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>An important rule went unnoticed here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The program can use the tablebase, but the game is declared draw when the
>>>>>>computer hits a tblbase draw!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not a trivial statement: imagine Kasparov gets into a position where he is in
>>>>>>disadvatage, he can try to enter in an endgame he knows to be drawn even not
>>>>>>knowing how to play it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A sort of compensation for the fact Deep Junior has the TB's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>regards
>>>>>>Franz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That is yet another example of the stupidest rule anyone could come up with.



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