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Subject: Re: Isn't it an easy case?

Author: Bob Durrett

Date: 16:20:35 12/01/03

Go up one level in this thread


On December 01, 2003 at 12:39:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 01, 2003 at 11:41:56, Bob Durrett wrote:
>
>>On December 01, 2003 at 11:30:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On December 01, 2003 at 11:23:09, Bob Durrett wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 01, 2003 at 11:00:16, Sven Reichard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 01, 2003 at 10:17:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The operator made the decision to play on.  But the operator is _not_ allowed
>>>>>>to make _any_ decisions while a game is in progress, as per the rules.
>>>>>>Therefore this reasoning simply is unsound because it is based on rules that
>>>>>>were not in effect.  The operator is passive.  He _always_ has been passive,
>>>>>>at least when we go by the rules in force for these events.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>If he is always passive, I don't see the point of having an operator. Most
>>>>>programs run on all-purpose hardware (maybe enhanced by some additional
>>>>>circuits) with networking capabilities. Why not have the opponents communicate
>>>>>directly, using a standard interface like xboard or UCI, maybe relayed via an
>>>>>arbiter program? Then they can decide for themselves whether to offer or claim a
>>>>>draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>If the GUI makes decisions for the engine, the combination GUI/engine should be
>>>>>considered the competitor.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sven.
>>>>
>>>>My understand is that the operator is there for a good reason similar to why a
>>>>wise tournament director must be there.  Chess computer tournaments are still
>>>>evolving and humans need to be there to correct for errors or oversights of the
>>>>programmers.
>>>
>>>Crafty has played over 1 million games on chess servers with no problems.  We
>>>want the operators there in case there is a network issue that causes a
>>>disconnect, or a hardware problem that might require a reboot (very rare), and
>>>to discuss things with other programmers.  We don't need operators to handle
>>>normal "problems" as they simply don't happen.
>>
>>Please forgive me for saying this, but:  "In all due respect, playing your
>>engine on a chess server is simply not the same thing as playing in a chess
>>computer tournament.  You might use similar technology but there are significant
>>differences in the two situations."
>>
>>Bob D.
>
>And what would those differences be?  FIDE has had events on the net.  CCT
>is a computer chess tournament that works just fine on the internet.  The
>main difference is that there are no "operator errors" to contend with because
>there are no "operators".

The two examples you cite are tournaments.  When you said "Crafty has played
over 1 million games on chess servers with no problems." I did not think you
were talking about tournaments.  The non-tournament automated use of chess
computers at ICC is a different application from a tournament application.

Bob D.

>
>The server is the final arbiter with respect to time, draws, wins and losses.
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>>  When the available rule set fails to properly cover a new
>>>>situation, humans must get involved.  Hopefully, their actions will be
>>>>reasonable.  [Throwing a draw away would not be reasonable.]
>>>>
>>>>Bob D.



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