Author: Ulrich Tuerke
Date: 07:40:55 06/18/01
Go up one level in this thread
On June 18, 2001 at 10:25:36, Uri Blass wrote: >On June 18, 2001 at 10:01:45, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: > >>On June 18, 2001 at 08:54:10, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:33:21, Ulrich Tuerke wrote: >>> >>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:28:08, Bas Hamstra wrote: >>>> >>>>>On June 17, 2001 at 01:09:50, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On June 16, 2001 at 22:59:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>From Gian-Carlo i received tonight a cool version of crafty 18.10, >>>>>>>namely a modified version of crafty. The modification was that it >>>>>>>is using a small sense of Singular extensions, using a 'moreland' >>>>>>>implementation. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Instead of modifying Crafty to simulate Deep Blue, why didn't you >>>>>>modify Netscape? Or anything else? I don't see _any_ point in >>>>>>taking a very fishy version of crafty and trying to conclude _anything_ >>>>>>about deep blue from it... >>>>>> >>>>>>Unless you are into counting chickens to forecast weather, or something >>>>>>else... >>>>> >>>>>I don't agree here. It is fun. Maybe not extremely accurate, but it says >>>>>*something* about the efficiency of their search, which I believe is horrible. I >>>>>think using SE and not nullmove is *inefficient* as compared to nullmove. We >>>>>don't need 100.0000% accurate data when it's obviously an order of magnitude >>>>>more inefficient. >>>> >>>>May be you are right, if the program is running on a PC. However if you can >>>>reach a huge depth anyway because of hardware, may be you can afford to use >>>>this, because it doesn't matter too much wasting one ply depth ? >>> >>>It is not about wasting one ply but about clearly more than it and >>>it is clear that not using null move is counter productive when the difference >>>becomes bigger and not smaller at longer time control so the fact that they had >>>better hardware only supports using null move. >> >>How can you be so sure ? Do you really know that all of the top programs are >>using null move. I wouldn't bet too high on this. There may be viable >>alternatives to this, though not being published. > >I know that Junior and Rebel do not use null move but they use other pruning >techniques. > >I do not believe that the technique of no pruning+singular extension is good at >long time control and this is the point. You may be right or not. Who knows ? Who really knows the program of the Deep Blue guys ? IMHO, the discussion is far too speculative. I guess that these gentlemen were knowing very well what they were doing. I think that it's almost some kind of arrogance, to disqaulify their program without knowing a thing. Isn't it ? Uli > >Uri
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