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Subject: Re: Fritz is a GM

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 13:50:09 07/15/98

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On July 15, 1998 at 11:03:10, Danniel Corbit wrote:

>On July 14, 1998 at 10:52:16, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>[snip]
>>>I do not think DT was a true GM
>>>do you think DT is better than the top microcomputers?
>>
>>not just better but significantly better.  It was a true GM based on the
>>Fredkin requirement that it play 24 games and that it's performance over
>>24 straight games remain over 2500.  It met that some time back.
>[snip]
>Disagree.  Here is the official FIDE grandmaster list:
>http://www.fide.org/info/gmdirect.htm
>DT is not on the list.
>DT is not a GM.
>Simple.
>


I didn't say otherwise.  At the time of DT, FIDE did *not* allow computer
entries.  So a computer GM was impossible.  The Fredkin prize requirement
was worded to the following:

   The computer must maintain a "rating" over 2550, for 25 consecutive
   games.  It could not play only matches, there were various stipulations
   to prevent any sort of fudging.

So, as I said, DT produced this rating.  It did not play in any FIDE
events, so it could not earn any GM norms.  Nor could it even have a FIDE
rating of 2500 to start the GM process.

But it definitely *played* at a GM-level, based on its performance in
multiple tournaments and matches with GM-class players.  That's all I
said.  It was *clearly* a GM-player, even though it didn't/couldn't earn
the GM title.

>Without meeting the official requirements for becoming a GM, the program is not
>a GM.  An interesting aside is that the best chess player in the world may never
>have played in a tournament.  He/She might be able to beat every player in the
>world without ever losing a game.  But that player is not a GM until proven.
>
>If we are trying to establish, "Can program Fritz beat a GM?"  I think the
>answer is surely yes.  Probably every good commercial chess program can do it.
>I'll bet that every program in KKUP 2 could defeat one, given enough games.  On
>the other hand, if a large number of GM's played hundreds of serious games
>against each of these programs, I believe a flaw would be discovered in each and
>every one of them [probably in the approach of a couple GM's as well!].

I agree with you 100%.  However, if you look at the Fredkin prize award
information, DT was clearly playing "at GM strength, based on a >2550
rating for 25 consecutive games, computed using normal rating procedures."

But, as you pointed out, it wasn't a "GM" in the FIDE list.  It might well
have been one in the USCF listing, there I don't know.  There are multiple
federations that award GM titles of course...  Only FIDE awards the IGM
title.



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