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Subject: Re: Go programming

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 12:21:58 02/12/04

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On February 12, 2004 at 15:12:18, Roy Eassa wrote:

>In December, I sort of got into the game of Go.  Part of its fascination for me
>is how it differs from chess with regard to creating a strong program.  Methods
>based primarily on tree searching apparently do not work in Go, for 2 main
>reasons: first, the branching factor is much, much higher than in chess, and
>second, once you've arrived at an  end-node (position) to evaluate, there's no
>known method of coming up with a reasonable evaluation.
>
>[Thus I had the perfect opportunity to create a Go-playing program that was
>very, very weak yet might still beat me because I too was very, very weak
>(having just re-learned the rules after over 25 years).  But, alas, I studied Go
>fairly intensely for 2 weeks and now I'm strong enough (but still weak!) that
>I'd probably have great difficulty creating a program from scratch that can beat
>me consistently.]
>
>Some people say that no Go program will be stronger than the best humans for at
>least another century, if ever!  Today's best Go programs are far weaker than
>any Go professional.

Hogwash.  Computers will have more compute power than the human brain long
before a century passes.

>Anyway, has anybody here ever tried writing a Go-playing program?  I think it's
>a field ripe for a "breakthrough" -- a completely new approach from those that
>have been tried.  I also think the Go programming world will make a small number
>of people a LOT of money at some point, as it lacks the monstrous presence of a
>Chessbase -- a powerhouse company that sells a GUI with every conceivable
>feature and sets the standard protocol for (nearly) all commercial playing
>engines.  There are a few decent GUIs and a few decently strong engines
>(compared to weak amateur humans), but there's nothing even remotely close to
>Chessbase (Fritz, etc.) for features or standardization.  Every top programmer
>uses his own GUI.  Sort of like chess 12-15 years ago, in some ways.
>
>I think some smart person will create a full-featured GUI for Go that uses a
>"plug-in" architecture for playing engines, then negotiate with all the top
>authors to adapt their programs to that architecture, thus making a lot of money
>without having to write a strong engine themselves.  Further, I think that
>having a standard plug-in architecture for testing one's Go engine will prompt
>many more people to create Go engines, thus increasing competition exponentially
>-- increasing the chance for a breakthrough.
>
>Two additional points:
>
>First, I think it's quite a bit easier to create an engine that plays Go legally
>than it is to create one that plays chess legally.  Even doing the GUI yourself
>isn't too hard, since it's mainly just black & white stones on a grid.  That
>should encourage more people to try.
>
>Second, I realize that the market for Go products is pretty tiny in the Americas
>and only medium-sized in Europe.  But I think there's a HUGE market in Asia,
>which can only grow as Asia's economies continue to grow quickly.  Thus I think
>that any product created would have to be marketed to Asia (primarily?) for big
>financial success.
>
>Bottom line: I think there's a huge gap in the market that SOMEBODY will get
>rich from at some point in the not-too-distant future.  And Go is a pretty
>interesting game, even though "chess" is considered a dirty word to many serious
>Go players.

Here is a port of GnuGo 3.4:
ftp://cap.connx.com/chess-engines/new-approach/gnugo-34.zip

It definitely searches a tree and it is pretty strong.



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