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Subject: Re: Kasparov - Deep Junior: and tablebases draw rule

Author: Dux Kazer

Date: 09:27:56 01/22/03

Go up one level in this thread


On January 22, 2003 at 12:06:37, Matthew Hull wrote:

>On January 22, 2003 at 11:58:05, Christopher A. Morgan wrote:
>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>It shows me the abality of GK to negoiate a rule very favorable to him.
>>It is not at all certain that GK could, over the board, be certain of a
>>draw in a known draw position as determined with tablebases with, at least all
>>5 piece endings, and most likely some six piece endings. Now, in those
>>positions the game will end in a draw, which, in my view, is correct. This
>>does not address the situation where DJ sees a tablebase draw in its search and,
>>if it's losing trys to steer the game to that position.
>>
>>I like the rule. I do not see any contest between machine and man where
>>the machine looks up its move in a table, and waits for the human to make
>>a mistake.
>
>
>It is possible the machine could see a tablebase draw which a human would not
>know how to "solve" and thus lose the drawn position.  The human would deserve
>the loss.  This is the point of the man/machine contest.
>

 Oh Yes... but let the machine play without the tablebases and it will lose even
simple knight vs rook draw for sure, not to say KRP vs KR..

>If the possibility of a game like this is so remote, then why have the rule in
>the first place?
>
>It is a bad rule, IMO.
>
>Matt
>
>
>>That the machine has a huge opening book is somewhat similar,
>>but as GK has a tremendous knowledge of openings it seems fair that the
>>machine have a similar knowledge.
>>
>>We know nothing about the opening book for DJ. And, apparently, there are no
>>rules for the opening book.   I would like to see a rule that limits DJ's
>>opening book to a set number of moves, like 10-15 moves. As far as we know
>>DJ's book may be all games played by all strong players who have ever played the
>>game through to the final move.  Where is the contest if the machine
>>just looks up its move in a table?
>>
>>
>>On January 22, 2003 at 11:06:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On January 22, 2003 at 05:12:52, Francesco Di Tolla wrote:
>>>
>>>>An important rule went unnoticed here.
>>>>
>>>>The program can use the tablebase, but the game is declared draw when the
>>>>computer hits a tblbase draw!
>>>>
>>>>Not a trivial statement: imagine Kasparov gets into a position where he is in
>>>>disadvatage, he can try to enter in an endgame he knows to be drawn even not
>>>>knowing how to play it.
>>>>
>>>>A sort of compensation for the fact Deep Junior has the TB's.
>>>>
>>>>regards
>>>>Franz
>>>
>>>
>>>That is yet another example of the stupidest rule anyone could come up with.



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