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Subject: Re: World Computer Chess Championship 2004 - Ironic

Author: Matthew Hull

Date: 11:06:56 03/01/04

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On March 01, 2004 at 12:15:51, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On March 01, 2004 at 01:18:17, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>
>>On February 29, 2004 at 23:29:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On February 29, 2004 at 21:49:41, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>The tournament format for WCCC that was originally decided was:
>>>>
>>>>--------
>>>>http://www.cs.unimaas.nl/icga/news/events/Israel/event.html
>>>>
>>>>The format for the 12th World Computer Chess Championship WCCC2004 will be:
>>>>5-round Swiss, after which the top 4 + 4 teams get to play a 2-round elimination
>>>>at each stage, and the bottom teams continue to compete for the 9th spot playing
>>>>a 6-round Swiss.
>>>>--------
>>>>
>>>>However, since a large number of amateur programmers expressed their disapproval
>>>>of this system, we have decided to change the format so that it will attract the
>>>>largest number of programmers. Currently the two options are:
>>>>
>>>>A) Like the original format, but with re-entry:
>>>>
>>>>Divide the participants into two groups. Conduct 5 rounds Swiss, and top 4 from
>>>>each group (total of 8) will qualify for next stage, which will be a knockout (2
>>>>rounds quarter-final, 2 rounds semi-final, 2 rounds final). The other programs
>>>>will continue with 6 more Swiss rounds. However, the *difference* is: the losers
>>>>in the knockout will join the other programs (who haven't qualified for knockout
>>>>phase) in continuing with additional Swiss rounds (with all the points they
>>>>scored in the first 5 rounds and in the knockout phase).
>>>>
>>>>The advantage of this method over the original one is that the amateurs will get
>>>>more chances of playing against commercial programs after the first 5 rounds.
>>>>
>>>>B) 11 rounds Swiss.
>>>>
>>>>In Graz WCCC everything was basically over after 7 rounds. The last 4 rounds
>>>>didn't change anything at all. That is the reason why we are trying to choose a
>>>>more exciting format.
>>>>
>>>>However, our primary goal is maximizing participation. So, if 11 rounds Swiss
>>>>will attract the largest number of participants, then we will opt for it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>We are interested in hearing your opinion, especially the opinion of programmers
>>>>who are considering participation in WCCC.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Omid David Tabibi (davoudo@cs.biu.ac.il),
>>>>Bar-Ilan University.
>>>
>>>
>>>Why don't you address _the_ problem, rather than trying random solutions that
>>>won't do anything useful.
>>>
>>>"the problem" is too many rounds for too few participants.
>>
>>That doesn't seem like a problem to me.  Hell, if you take that attitude then
>>World Championship matches would only last 1 game.  Then Fischer would have lost
>>to Spassky!
>
>Let's come back to reality.  For Fischer/Spassky +I+ didn't have to travel
>there, and stay for two weeks.
>
>11 rounds is too many with 16 players.  It would make _more_ sense to add
>another 4 rounds and make it a pure round-robin.
>
>But it is the _length_ that is the problem.  The number of rounds is an issue
>Omid brought up because the last four rounds were completely meaningless to the
>final outcome.  That is one issue.  The overall length of the tournament is too
>long for me (and others) to attend.  That is another issue.


It's ironic that with the advent of fast, stable, commodity interconnectivity,
and the development of tried-and-tested automation interfaces, that the
so-called "world championship" has only gotten slower, longer, more expensive
and more colloqial.

Once again, the most awesome power on earth (stupidity) triumphs over
technology.



>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>There are two solutions:
>>>
>>>(1) get more participants.  Not very likely.  Particularly in light of other
>>>issues already beat to death in the past.  Event is too long, making it a
>>>problem.  Always hosting it in Europe, with a visit to the Middle-East, is
>>>another problem.  Etc.
>>>
>>>(2) reduce the number of rounds.
>>>
>>>There are other alternatives:
>>>
>>>(3) do a good job of seeding.  Then only pair the best score vs the worst score,
>>>and so forth, for 5 rounds.  That way no top competitors will play each other,
>>>to make the last rounds more exciting.
>>>
>>>(4) Same as 3 but first 6 rounds are double rounds, where in rounds 1 and 2 the
>>>same two programs play, but they reverse colors.
>>>
>>>(5) For the first 5-6 rounds, flip a coin to see who wins, then play the last 5
>>>rounds normally.
>>>
>>>IE there are a nearly infinite number of stupid ways to make the last N rounds
>>>more important.  There is only one _reasonable_ way.  Reduce the number of
>>>rounds.



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