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Subject: Re: Is SMIRF compatible with Arena?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 06:42:55 07/27/05

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On July 27, 2005 at 03:42:05, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote:

>On July 27, 2005 at 02:30:34, Alessandro Scotti wrote:
>
>>On July 27, 2005 at 01:05:33, Reinhard Scharnagl wrote:
>>
>>>SMIRF though using TMCI is showing by doing that it is possible to support a lot
>>>of variants WITHOUT SWITCHING the engine's mode simply by communicating with
>>>compatible FEN strings and encoded moves. This idea also could have been
>>>applicated to a UCI protocol extension. But actually that switches an engine
>>>into an FRC mode forcing the engine to different encoding of moves and FEN
>>>strings, e.g. generating different FENs for identic positions (where castling
>>>rights are based on traditional K+R placements only).
>
>Hi Allessandro,
>
>>I would not say that engine is "switched into FRC mode". Communication protocol
>>and engine interface should be completely separated, although they usually
>>aren't for practical reasons. Also, why not telling the engine it's going to
>>play FRC? Having more information at hand is rarely going to hurt, and you can
>>always throw it away.
>
>the problem is not the switching itself. But it is used to 'prove' Chess960 to
>be an incompatible variant. All information needed is already included in to be
>communicated FEN strings.
>
>And if you like to switch (for which obscure purpose ever) there is no need to
>change the enconding of transferred moves. My proposal (and the way Smirf works)
>is to encode castlings as kings moves when having at least two elementary steps
>and as move to the involve rook otherwise. This constitutes a compatible way
>along traditional chess, avoids misunderstandings looking at King's single step
>moves, and it establishes clear gestures to be made at a GUI to enter any
>castling move.
>
>And of course it is counter productive to change the way of producing a FEN
>string. Shredders approach now would produce different FEN strings in positions,
>where existing castling rights are related to traditional K+R placements. This
>does not make any sense at all.
>
>But as a rule to avoid switching FORCES COMPATIBILITY instead of such nonsense.
>
>>A protocol adaptor, which you would have to write for TMCI anyway, can easily
>>translate FEN and adjust castling moves before passing them to the engine if
>>needed.
>
>Because TMCI is rather modern this would not work in both directions. And as
>long as extended UCI will mutually make Chess960 an incompatible variant, there
>is no way to give me any motivation for to do this.
>
>>P.S. I really like SMIRF and your ideas on chess programming, so I hope
>>development may restart soon!
>
>I just have published the status quo to enable chess programmers to watch a
>working compatible Chess960 concept beside of protocol questions.
>
>But when the situation is not changing (e.g. by the Chess960 WNCA to publish
>quality concepts for Chess960 representations in FEN, PGN and GUI gestures) I
>will work on other ideas like Go programming etc..
>
>Reinhard.

It is your decision but I do not understand how notation disagreement(of things
like how to encode castling) can convince people not to work on chess960.

As far as I understand there is already a tool to translate Shredder's notation
to your notation and the opposite(see
http://www.volker-pittlik.name/wbforum/viewtopic.php?t=3135).

I see no reason that protocol will not allow every program to choose between
X-Fen and Shredder's Fen in the same way that arena allows both UCI engines and
winboard engines to play inside it inspite of the fact that they are using a
different protocol.

Uri




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