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Subject: Re: Crafty rating on ICC

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 12:27:35 10/27/99

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>On October 26, 1999 at 12:54:02, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>
>You noplayed the two highest rated blitz computers around (Ban & Varguz). The
>others are either hundreds of points lower or don't come any longer.

I didn't noplay either _intentionally_.  Varguz gets noplayed all the time
because they use multiple operators and they don't "his crafty" and notice
that another operator has played 4 games already.  They know about this.
I know about their 'four operator' problem.  When they get noplayed, they
message me and I fix it.  Your case was also odd.  I have no idea whether
you have a lousy ISP, or the internet was having problems, or what.  When I
am asked to remove someone I always comply unless it is one of the 'cheaters'
or someone that is obnoxious.  An example of this would be to kibitz "hey
you a**hole, this f**king program is a piece of sh**."  A few young kids are
good at that kind of nonsense.  Not only do I noplay them, I also censor them
as their channel tells are equally as obnoxious.


>Perhaps you didn't notice, but the computer competition on ICC has all but died
>out. I try to vary my opponents, but if I decide I don't play crafty, I have to
>see which crafty clone is willing to play me and is not rated 400 points below
>me, or wait for a non-crafty computer to log in.
>

It hasn't died down that much.  I just checked my 24 hour log. Crafty has
played 54 games, and 15 of those were against computers.  That is not
too uncommon.  It is sometimes higher when we are getting ready for a WMCCC
event as Bruce/I will often play longer matches (or vincent and I) to test.

>
>
>You can do as you please, but if you are too selective in your opponents, you
>can't claim your rating to be realistic.
>
>As I said, I play crafty partly because there's no one else there of roughly
>equal rating.
>
>I don't understand this about trying to increase my rating. When someone with a
>high rating thinks that playing him is exploitation, he's really saying that his
>rating is inflated. If the rating is realistic, it will hold.

This is an easy one to answer.  IMHO most computers on ICC are fairly equal
in strength overall. Knowing that, if you play computers well below you (I
do this, down to -400 below me) you _are_ going to lose rating points.  If
you only play computers above you, you _are_ going to gain rating points.

IE why not play zarkovx a few games?  John/Max are on regularly.  The program
is very strong, but only rated in the 2900-3000 range most of the time.  I
usually win slightly more than I lose against them, but I lose rating points
anyway.
>
>
>Refusing to draw when you have insufficient material to win is abusive, against
>computers or otherwise.

It could be called "abusive" on the part of crafty, or "stupid" on the part
of the person that _matches_ crafty wouldn't you say?  IE if you come to my
door today and I pop you in the mouth, you could say "Hey, that was abusive".
If you come tomorrow and I pop you in the mouth again, you could say "hey,
that was abusive".  If you come back the next day, I pop you in the mouth
and say "hey, that was stupid".

If you aren't happy with the way it plays against computers, just don't play
it.  There are lots of other computers that don't mind.  In fact, most are
now automated and don't care at all.  Why aren't you using your old auto-
matic interface?  I think you'll find it _much_ harder to stick at 3200
when you let a GM play 50 games and find a big hole somewhere.

>
>
>I had trouble myself believing that it's doing this, but it did.
>

If it hung, I'd believe it.  Because if crafty 'dies' xboard won't restart
it, it just lets the game sit until the clock runs down.  The only abuse I
see here is that this has happened on many occasions and most GM players
will see it and message me.  Other non-titled players (and a few titled ones
I admit) will promptly match it 20-30 times and let it flag every game to
run their rating up.

>
>
>I come to ICC to play. I don't have noplay lists. Your program displays some
>over-aggressive behavior that can be called unpleasant to unsportsmanlike
>according to taste. It would not be forgiven to a serious human player, and the
>excuse that "it's just a dumb automatic program" is not good enough, since this
>behavior is not very hard to change.
>
>Amir
>

You say you don't have a noplay list.  And since you run manual a noplay
list makes no sense.  But you also said you have an 'implicit noplay list'
because you want to play computers only close to your rating and not way
below it.  If I were manual, I wouldn't have a ICC noplay list either.  I
would just decline matches I didn't want to play.  But with an automatic
interface, noplay is the only way to avoid those that seem to be abusers.

The noplay list isn't a bad thing...  ie it sounds like you effectively have
way more on yours than I do...  Or would you be willing to play any GM no
matter what his rating?  I have given most GMs on ICC crafty's password so
that they can play whenever they want, at any time control they want, without
regard to its formula.  And I pay for it on occasion.
>



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