Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 04:49:52 08/13/98
Go up one level in this thread
On August 13, 1998 at 06:05:02, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>And claiming something that somebody said me, makes me a liar? > >Of course not. Forgetful or mistaken are better words. Because you did forget to >mention that Fritz 5 ran on a 2X slower machine in its match against Rebel 10. I did not know this. I have no idea which machines moritz has each month. He changes his hardware like we change underclothe. I am not interested in hardware. >You also forgot to mention that in this match Fritz 5 tied with Rebel 10, >stating instead that Fritz lost. But mistakes are not lies. How do you want to know what I forget and what not. Do you know about what I talked with moritz, were you ear-witness. >Now for interpretation of data. If losing makes Fritz 5 much weaker on even >machines (???), then winning when F5 ran on a 2x slower machine would mean... Look, i have no idea what he tested. Not which setup he used. Not which machines. We did not talked about this. Not at all. He just told me, en passant, meanwhile we talked about other things, what i posted with much pleasure. We did not talk about conditions. I am sure you can produce all kind of results if you change the environment. If you want to know my opinion about Moritz results, i think moritz results do not reflect the strength of fritz, as the ssdf-results do not reflect the strength... and your own results. We have discussed this over and over. I will not start to discuss it again with you. Whatever and however you test, it does not produce the results that gives the performance of fritz. And - as i said before - i am not the only person having this opinion, the fact is the others don't want to talk with people like you and moritz. They see no sense in doing this. So - why shall I follow your points... my friends and I have different point of views, we also have machines, and we also have different results. Results where Fritz plays like it played in paris, and like it plays in my tournament, in the moment. weak games, draws, nothing strong, only 2nd class... >But we know you are against bean counters and simplistic logic. Forget facts. >Only simple minds care about them. If you call yourself a simple mind, i don't want to stop you from doing it. If you think thats important to post here, i see no sense in seeing you post stuff like this. Is this important for this group that you call yourself this way ?! >Then don’t... Ad libitum, ad nauseam, ad infinitum. Schön. >Are you talking about Fritz 5 as a program or as an engine? As a program, you >can always play with other available and high quality engines, if Fritz itself >doesn’t amuse you. And then you would still have the wonderful features, the >access to the best databases there are. Etc. Etc. Etc. Mary it. Its the program you deserve. >Surely you refer to the engine. For a forgetful person it would be worth to >remember all results posted before about Fritz 5 by Mark, Moritz, myself, the >SSDF... You want to see fritz in this light. And you fail to understand that your testing procedure produces the results you want to produce. If i don't test fritz against program, i don't like and i call WEAK programs, i will never find out of course how stupid fritz plays. If you allow chessBase to bring their own strange autoplayer, and you suddenly get brilliant results, meanwhile all manually playing guys get much weaker results, more on the level I get, than you should normally be suspicious. You are'nt- why ? Because you want to proof what you know before. > Also about excellent results obtained by Fritz 5 in strong human >tournaments. These were fast chess tournaments. Any other program would have had the same good results, even Anand has problems in fast games, what do you expect from other players ?!? > Fritz 5 did very well in all those, as we all remember. Will your >tournament be the first one where Fritz will score poorly? I don't know. We will see. I have no idea. IN the moment the performance was low. Look in the games yourself. They are public. >So you don’t care for >Fritz 5 as an engine. Most interesting. But trash? Then what are all the others >that systematically score less well than Fritz 5? weaker ! They are weaker. Or the autoplayer cheats. I have no idea enrique. Try to ask yourself about. >>> This is your own fault not Moritz or mine. >> >>Fault is it to call somebody a liar in public/here, just for nothing. >>You need this. Do it. But stand the consequences. > >I find your sudden concern for netiquette touching. I get rid of those people. There are to many faked people here, who try to produce chaos and attacks for whatever reasons. >Three members of the now >dissolved group of CCC founders complained to moderators about your personal >insults here in the past. And ? Were you succesful in whatever you tried ?! Am i not allowed to demand for moderation, just because you have decided this ?! > One of them, as moderator, gave you a telephone call >asking you to put an end to your insulting campaign against Chessbase there was no compain against chessBase. Dirk has worked for chessbase before. Moritz does. You are all working for chessBase. I am not interested if you get money or not. But that you all call me doing a campaign AGAINST chessBase looks a little suspicious for 3 people working for chessbase, doesn't it ?! >and >against some CCC posters. From “Marlboro man” to “bean counters”, with other >charming epithets in between, remember? Right. I remember very good. >Surely not, otherwise you wouldn't try >to apply to others the rules you didn't follow. So you believe that because I got your "telephone-call" from an old friend, I have now not the right to ask for moderation ? Are you the first class member here, and I am the second class member ?! >But now that you see the light >and the need to avoid personal attacks, I couldn’t agree more with you. So brilliant. This seems to be the beginning of a friendship then . >And then again I think Mark was wrong. A post devoid of truth doesn’t >necessarily make the poster a liar. Depends if someone willingly posted wrong data. >Enrique Thanks for your comments enrique. They were eye-opened to me :-)) "nevertheless" :-)))
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