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Subject: Re: How Rebel plays at SSDF the bare facts, just statistics and thoughts

Author: Enrique Irazoqui

Date: 15:02:56 06/16/98

Go up one level in this thread


On June 16, 1998 at 16:51:19, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>
>On June 15, 1998 at 18:56:12, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>
>>     Fritz 5      Crafty 14.12        Diep         Hiarcs 6
>>1-    -0.50          -0.53            -1.00
>>2-    -0.16          -0.20            -0.84
>>3-    +0.06          -0.20            -1.01
>>4-     0.00          -0.16            -0.24
>>5-    -1.25          -1.13            -1.16         -1.46
>>6-    -1.06          -1.87            -1.24         -1.48
>>8-    -0.56          -0.45            -0.58
>>11-   -0.63          -0.88            -0.78
>>12-   -0.13          -0.59            -0.44
>
>Thanks for your evaluations.
>Please play some games with this lines too and
>post the results together with evaluation which will quickly drop.
>
>Rebel with black please too.

Too time consuming for me. Please, help yourself.

>>Lines 6, 7, 9 and 10 are identical, and so are lines 5 and 13.
>>
>>Lines 5 and 6 are the most favorable to Rebel and the only ones that could be
>>suspected. Line 5 was played in a game Karklins-Leverett in the Chicago US Open
>>of 1989. This game ended in a draw. Line 6 was played in the game Hazai-Moehring
>>of Halle2 1981 and it also ended in a draw. No special computer killer lines
>>here, although no one would be very happy playing black's side.
>>
>>Nothing strange about the other lines. Black is slightly down when it leaves
>>book, but this is not uncommon playing black.
>>
>>What happened in the games Fritz 5 - Rebel 9 played by the SSDF has nothing to
>>do with cooked lines. Rebel was unable to save its games and therefore to
>>"learn", and it fell over and over on the same (not cooked) lines.
>
>That's a brilliant implementation of Fritz5 team. Prevent the opponent from
>learning.

Not true. The first version of Fritz’s autoplayer didn’t allow some of the
opponents to save their games. As a consequence, Rebel, and only Rebel, could
not learn. Now, go figure if this is the fault of that autoplayer or if it is
rather a design flaw of Rebel’s learner. For sure Rebel 10 will implement its
learner differently, and the current autoplaying Fritz 5 lets the opponents save
their games. In any case, this issue has nothing to do with Fritz having cooked
lines, as you posted originally.

>When we play a game together Enrique i first kick you very hard at the
>brain, then you're like you were when you were a baby, a baby which
>did not learn much (when surgeons operate your brain and remove
>some stuff from it, you lose memories and need to learn again a lot).
>
>Would such a surgical operation give us a fair match?
>
>Doesn't a program have the right to learn from previous games?

All this is not real. See above.

>This says something about SSDF preparing i guess!

What makes you guess this? Your points so far:

1 - Rebel cooks in the SSDF games. Not true.
2 - Fritz cooks too. Not true.
3 - Fritz doesnt't allow the opponents to learn. Not true.
4 - All this is about preparing for the SSDF. Since 1), 2) and 3) are false, 4)
is necessarily false too.

Enrique

>Certain try it by making a killerbook (my definition of a killerbook:
>a book which has been made in order to win against certain opponents
>and adjusted such that and then tested so that you KNOW for sure
>that you are gonna win), others by brain surgery.
>
>Look how cool things have evolved in Sweden. Note that SSDF
>themselve is not guilty. For some dollar reason it was needed to win
>there for certain programs, and they have been taken care for it by investing
>time so money into it.
>
>>Enrique
>
>Vincent



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