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Subject: Re: Dutch Open Leiden after round 6

Author: Johan Hutting

Date: 07:35:36 10/21/02

Go up one level in this thread


On October 20, 2002 at 20:11:57, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 20, 2002 at 19:37:18, Johan Hutting wrote:
>
>>On October 20, 2002 at 15:22:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>The
>>_released_
>>>winboard version of Ant is clearly better
>>>than the
>>_released_
>>>winboard version of Celes.
>>
>>which is over a year old anyway.
>
my point was that comparing with ancient released versions is silly. Especially
at low level the strength varies a lot.

>Ant winboard version is also old.
>
>What is your estimate for the level
>of Celes relative to the winboard engines
>in Leo's tournament?

No clue, if I see larsenVB and tscp playing in 3rd division I wonder what Celes
does in 4th :)
>
>Is it better than the public Ant?

I don't have ant installed on my computer.

>>>
>>>It lost against the baron and celes with
>>
>>so baron is also clearly worse then ant?
>
>Baron is clearly better than the winboard Ant but
>It was not clear for me if it was better than
>the last Ant.

'clearly better' is a bit harsch I suppose. I valued (a stable) ant at ~2300,
while baron is ~2200. It's been a while since I tested with Baron though.
>
>The point is that they repeated the same opening after losing
>and in both games the queen got from d8 to d5 and d6 and d8.

It's so amazing Kasparov still plays 1.e4 after all those games he lost with it
:x

Openings have so many variations that you could still opt to play them, even if
you lose a couple of games with it. If you look at the games Ant played you'll
notice it doesn't pick the 'best' move in some positions. Celes went down to
-0.05 after 15.c3 after which I considered the opening to be going well for
them.

>I know that there is an opening 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5
>3.Nc3 Qd6 but even if this opening is good
>it seemed from the games that Ant did not know to play
>it so it is a clearly bad choice for opening book.

See previous comment.
>
>>Ant only scored 1 point vs Djenghis and a very lucky half point vs ZZZZZ.
>>
>>>1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qd6 and in both games the queen came later to d8.
>>>
>>>I do not understand this opening choice.
>>

[snip]

>>Perhaps you should participate in a tournament yourself to figure out the
>>importance of good books, well tested engines and why to use unreleased
>>versions.
>
>If I participate I participate with unreleased version
>to prevent preperations but I do not plan to participate with untested version.

That's a healthy idea :)
I have a much faster version of Celes (speedup 20-25%) but I'm not sure if it
runs stable. Perhaps I'll play with it next week.
>
>I do not believe in the importance of books and the
>success of List with no book convince me that a book
>is not very important.

As I pointed out to Shark, what works for other people may not work for you.

>I believe that something with similiar level to list4.61
>that is unknown with no book or a very small book
>has good chances to get 50%.
>
>My latest movei(not public) has book and pondering
>but my tests are almost always with no book when
>I always change the
>first move so I can get different games.

hmmm, you'll still get alot of repetitions that way.



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