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Subject: Re: The King's News Clothes (Re: DB vs)

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:14:28 11/23/98

Go up one level in this thread


On November 23, 1998 at 11:50:01, Amir Ban wrote:

>On November 23, 1998 at 09:37:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On November 22, 1998 at 11:49:54, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I did not ask for all the tree but only the tree up to the point that my
>>>programs can see by search of 3 minutes that black has at least 1 pawn
>>>advantage.
>>>
>>>This is clearly less positions
>>>because if in the leaves it is -2.xx then Junior can see some moves before the
>>>leaves that it is -1.xx
>>
>>
>>ok... rather than 10 million pages, it might only be 1 million pages.  How
>>would we get those to you?  :)
>>
>
>I wonder how many people reading the last few posts of this thread have been
>reminded of the story of the King's New Clothes.
>
>
>>what you are overlooking is the point that junior (and all the other programs)
>>look at a fat, shallow tree.
>
>I am quite sure that the opposite is true. All PC programs have a much smaller
>effective branching factor than DT/DB. This is because they all do forward
>pruning, many of them aggressively, while DT/DB did none, and they do
>extensions, most at least as much as DT/DB, and at least in Junior, much more
>aggressively than DT/DB.
>
>

I'm going to try to keep this simple.  Here is a point-blank question:  if you
really believe that nonsensical statement you wrote above, then how can you
reconcile that with a program that is searching at least 1,000 times faster
than you, yet only gets to depth 10-11 in the game?  If they are not extending
far more than you could ever hope to then exactly *what* are they doing with
that factor of 1,000?  And remember that they have a pretty simple quiescence
search and they toss out bummer captures as well, so the work is *not* in
looking at zillions of captures.

now, in light of that, if you believe that "you extend much more aggressively
than they do" then *where* are those nodes of theirs *going*???  You have a
printout to look at.  Ought to be able to answer that somehow...


And then we will return to the definition of "hyperbole"...




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