Author: José Carlos
Date: 16:01:35 05/31/04
Go up one level in this thread
On May 31, 2004 at 18:33:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On May 31, 2004 at 18:29:09, Matthias Gemuh wrote: > >>On May 31, 2004 at 15:08:51, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On May 31, 2004 at 13:41:39, Miroslav Nikolic wrote: >>> >>>>Hardware: PIII 800MHz, 256Mb RAM >>>>OS: Windows Xp >>>>GUI: Chessprogram8 (Fritz 8) >>>>Tournament: 10x8x40min, round robin, 8 rounds >>>>Time control: 40'/40, 40'/40 + 40' (rest) >>>>Hash: 32 MB >>>>Ponder: off >>>>Resign: on >>>>Tablebase: Nalimov 4-pieces >>>>TB Cache : 6 MB >>>>Book used: DeepFritz7.ctg for Deep Fritz, H8 for Hiarcs, Select.ctg (by me) >>>>for others >>>>Book learning: off >>> >>> >>>Just a question: Why would you want to turn off a part of a chess program that >>>is not easy to develop in the first place? IE book learning is a part of many >>>engines. Turning it off makes no sense to me... any more than turning off >>>passed pawn evaluation or selective search capabilities... >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >>Strange logic ! >>How can one compare book learning with passed pawn evaluation or selective >>search ? > >Very simple. > >1. I added passed pawn logic to address weaknesses that needed help, in >Crafty's particular playing style. > >2. I _specifically_ designed the opening book around book learning. I have >_no_ hand-tailored lines, my book is made by sucking in reams of PGN data and >then relying on learning to discover which lines are bad or unplayable. > >Is this hard to understand? If I had a hand-customized book, I wouldn't care, >but I don't, and turning off the learning facility simply makes _zero_ sense... > >>To make sure that the outcome of a tournament does not depend on order >>of opponents, book learning has to be switched off. > > >That's nonsense. Does a human have to do a "brain purge" between opponents? > > > >>This cannot be said of passed pawn evaluation or selective search. >>IE to learn against A and use that knowledge to kill B leads to a different >>outcome than to learn against B and use that knowledge to kill A ! >>What has this got to do with passed pawn evaluation or selective search ? > > > >See above. I think it is simply time to disable this feature completely so it >is always on as it should be... I only have it for testing so that two versions >don't try to update the book at the same time and corrupt it. > > > >> >>/Matthias. Some people seem to think that the book is something different from the engine. They speak of the engine like "the part that analyzes", or something like that. They run unified book tournaments and disable book learning. The GUI makes the tablebase moves. All fine for me as long as they understand what the result will mean, ie the winner would be a very good partner for the chess player to analyze his games, not "the strongest program". This idea can be taken even further: the GUI might also control the time to think, putting the engine in analyze mode and deciding when to spend more time and when to make the current move. A unified time management algorithm would mean another step towards the "analyzer tournament". This algorithm could be made public domain and implemented in every GUI. I, myself, perfer to test the whole thing, the full program, and try to beat it with mine. Just a matter of taste, I guess... José C.
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