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Subject: Re: The importance of opening books -- a simple experiment

Author: Arturo Ochoa

Date: 09:23:16 02/18/05

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On February 18, 2005 at 11:07:14, Sune Fischer wrote:

>On February 18, 2005 at 10:20:50, Arturo Ochoa wrote:
>
>>>>Somehow you must at least factor the engine+hardware strength out of the
>>>>equation before you can say anything about the book being killer or not.
>>>>
>>
>>What is your equation?
>
>Something like
> strength = engine + hardware + book
>
>You say 700 for the book.

Correction: I did not say that. Vincent said it.

I dont agree with any of the absolute assumptions: Uri's Blass  or Vincent's.
The Vincent's is just the extreme contrary of the Uri's wrong point.

>We already know hardware advantage to be in the order of 60 Elo per doubling, so
>for a quad let's give it 100 Elo.
>
>Shredder system performs at ~2750 at world champs, that means shredder engine
>(single game, no repetitions) on normal hardware is less than 2000 Elo??!!
>

Where is it written that? I did not said that? Why to suppose that I said that?
:)

>>>>Also these books are not subject for massive statistical testing, they are
>>>>private and only used rarely which in makes it all a big load of guesswork.
>>>>
>>
>>How do you know that are not subject of massive statitical testing if such tests
>>are private? It is incredible how you suppose and guess without any relevant
>>fact. That is the absurd world of Uri Blass.
>
>We don't have that statistics so to us it is guesswork.
>
>You claim to have such data but what you say sounds wrong, it would mean among
>other things that Frenzee (random book) is about 300 Elo stronger than Shredder
>(random book).

No, I dont claim that I have the data of 500 engines tested. However, I am not
claiming to the 4 winds that my point of view is absolutely correct and all the
world is wrong (Uri's extreme).

Incorrect assumption: I say, Depending on the engine the elo variation can vary.
How much? It depends on the engine and book integration and how the whole
components were tested. I am not saying an absolute number for all the engines.

About, Frenzee. I dont have any idea. I have never tried that engine.

>
>Obviously something doesn't rhyme.
>
>>It seems to be you have got your root with your engine. And you seems not to
>>realize what components are really important.
>
>It couldn't be that you just underestimate the importance of the engine?

No. The engine is the core of the chess software component. If you add a tuned
book for the engine and well tested (where the engine "feels" Ok with every
resultant position after the opening)", the book evidently will help a lot the
engine.

How much? In Diep about 30% of the games. In Zappa about 25% of the games. In
Frenzee, I have not tried that engine.

>
>-S.



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