Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 04:19:57 08/23/99
Go up one level in this thread
On August 22, 1999 at 17:24:17, KarinsDad wrote: >>there is no bug ! >>it sometimes oversteps time-control. this is no bug. > >You are the one talking nonsense. This IS a BUG BUG BUG. You are practically the >only one on this forum who thinks it is not a bug. If it oversteps the time >control, it loses. If a human beeing ovrsteps it, the human also loses. Has a human a bug in his program ? :-) It is not illegal to lose on time (therefore we HAVE the clocks). If somebody thinking on a complicate move in a complicate game oversteps the time, this is a natural thing. it is a normal thing. it is unnatural and abnormal when computer-programs do NOT overstep time-controls. this is ONE reason why human beeings do not like to blitz against computers AND have to operate them. They could wish: the machine has to operate its own moves too ! so the chessplayers could ask for an operator to move the computer-programs moves on the board and to press the clocks. This would lead to the fact that the program would need an operator time. this operator could overstep the time too. as happened e.g. in paderborn championship in the game cstal-hiarcs. so - it is no bug. it is a normal feature. it happens. only if computers are advantaged (by not operated through an operator) there is NO operator-time and therefore the game is unfair because a program has an advantage. > It has been posted in another message that it did this with >one move to go to make the 40 moves and 4 minutes left on the clock in a won >position. and ? >There is a difference between a weakness in a program where it does not see a >strategy and a bug in the time management. there is no bug in the time management. you don't know what a bug is. > People expect programs to have >positional weaknesses. only SOME programs do have these enourmous positional problems :-) >Just like people expect humans to have tactical >weaknesses. People expect programs to have perfect time management. People >expect humans to have weaker time management. There is a difference between >programs and humans REGARDLESS of how much you want to make a program play like >a human. Saying that overstepping the time control is a feature of the program >is pure luancy. nonsense. I have seen Mark V using time for openings although mark v played out of book. mark v emulated the consideration time about book moves ! it is unfair that computer-programs play book-moves almost instantly. humans cannot do this as fast. >Take a step back, pretend you are not so involved with CSTal, and ask yourself: >As a customer, would you appreciate a feature where the program loses a won game >due to it mismanaging it's time? If some other program did that, you would >probably not think it was a WONDERFUL FEATURE. the user can use the time-control setup to make sure it cannot overstep time. i have done so in tournaments. only if the operator is stupid or slow, programs overstep time-controls. so your problem is no bug but a wrong handling of the program !! >Of course, the program CAN do it. But, it is NOT LEGAL. It is illegal to do it >and still win or draw the game, just like it is illegal to move pawns backwards. ??????? Nonsense. if black oversteps time and white has not seen it, black can mate white. if white is too stupid to look on the clock he/it is mate before he/it has seen it. it is not illegal. point. >Are you saying that if you do not get caught, it is ok (just like if CSTAL moved >a pawn backwards and did not get caught, it would be ok)? moving a pawn backwards is illegal. >As per your words, nonsense. I can read reviews and listen to the opinions of >people I respect and come up with my own opinion based on that. I do not need to >play with the program myself to come up with an opinion. In fact, I occasionally >ask people here for their opinions on programs in order to make informed >purchasing decisions. As i said. if you talk about something you don't have or never lived, this is called a prejudice. it becomes a judgement or an evaluation if you have it and test it and make experience with it. without experience, it is only prejudice. >KarinsDad :)
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