Author: Dann Corbit
Date: 17:26:09 04/05/04
Go up one level in this thread
On April 05, 2004 at 20:07:28, Sune Fischer wrote: >On April 05, 2004 at 15:25:43, Dann Corbit wrote: > >>On April 03, 2004 at 05:51:09, Sune Fischer wrote: > >Woops, nearly missed your reply :) > >>>I'm sure those kind of people are out there, but I'm also sure that Arena will >>>be the least of their problems. >>> >>>They won't know what table bases are, they won't know how to google around to >>>find them, they won't know how to browse Bob's ftp. >>> >>>If you are at that level you will have problems using _any_ windows program. >> >>Any nincompoop can install Shredder or Chessmaster or Chess Assistant. Have you >>tried it? There will be one or two questions that require an "OK" and those >>will have defaults supplied. My description of how an install should go is >>basically exactly how all of the professional programs work. > >This is like Arena. >I think it asks the user if he wants to install the endgame tables, but >he can just click no of course. >Click-click and it is installed :) For the most part. There are some rough edges, but I expect they will get better. >>Now, suppose that you want your users to answer lots of questions and tweak lots >>of paramters. You will be very sorry, because the technical support calls will >>instantly destroy any money you might have made. > >I'd expect a good product to come pre-tweaked, and most free engines do come >like that. A lot of the engines do not work properly unless you tweak stuff. The UCI ones often do better (but some UCI versions fail and the Winboard ones work). But Arena is new. In a few months most will probably get straightened out. >>>I disagree. >>> >>>What use are they going to have of a chess engine if they can't manage to answer >>>these questions. >> >>They will play games against it. They might be able to go online and play >>against other people if it is stupendously simple to do it. > >I don't think they are going to have much fun playing against Shredder, not many >find it interesting to get beaten over and over again in 20 moves. That's why ChessMaster has so many built in personalities. >They are going to want more than that, so they have to start browsing the menus. >I don't think they are going to buy it just to play on playchess.com, there are >already many easily accessible and free game servers on the internet running >directly with java which is even easier to get working. > >>>How will they ever figure out to setup a position for analysis, >>>how will they ever figure out to change the time control? >> >>They may never figure it out. Most people won't care about analyzing a position >>because they will not know what the analysis means anyway. > >And so they will have a limited use of the program. >There is only so much you can do with click clicks. :) > >>>You need some basic understanding before you can use programs. >> >>Point and click should be enough for any mass market product. > >Why? > >If people want to learn how to drive a car they take lessons, if they want to >program their VCR they read the manual. How many houses did you walk into and see the VCR time signal blinking? I have some friends whom I have set the VCR clock 5 or 6 times. Doesn't mean that they are stupid. Just techo-phobic. >Yet somehow people expect to be able to operate the most sophisticated of all >mans creations by nothing other than their godgiven intuition. > >Magic I say. At least until we reach the HAL9000 level, and even then you will >still have to face a large multibutton control panel. > >Let's face it, interfaces are not going to diappear in the near future. >They might eventually merge into some kind of standard but they won't disappear >I think. Notepad as an interface will be daunting. Furthermore, many people are terrible typists. >>>>But that's OK. They know how to curry a horse or to do titrations in resin >>>>columns or tune a Ferarri. They just don't know how to mess with computers. >>> >>>They will have to learn, there is no other way. Software can't do magic. >> >>There is no need for them to learn to edit ini files or to understand what a >>hash table is for or to know what pondering means. None of it is relevant for >>the average user. > >It is relevant if they want the most out of their program, if they can live with >less then they can do without. It needs to start simple at least. If somewhere in the install process the instructions say "open file with notepad and set pawn hash to 1/16th of available memory" the product will fail. On the other hand, if there is some menu item for setting pawn hash and there is a helpful description for it on the form, and there are 2 pages of explanations if they hit the help button, then the will eventually adjust the pawn hash if they feel like going into that much detail. >If you aren't willing to learn how to edit a line in an ini-file then you can go >and spend $50 to get one of those profi click-click devices. ?profi click-click? They are not going to spend any money to edit something. If they can't do it, they will put it back in the box. They might return it or they might just let it sit on the shelf. In either case the customer got nothing for their money. >Lazy or stupid has its price. :) Not knowing how to use text editors implies neither lazy nor stupid. It implies a certain lack of technical skills. If someone at a stable put a strange iron device in your hand and said "Go curry the blaze." most people would not know what to do. That implies neither that they are lazy nor stupid. They may or may not be interested in learning what "curry" and "blaze" are. If they are horse lovers, they may get interested and ask about what these things mean and actually perform the task correctly. >However, they are in luck as Arena is the best of both worlds :) Arena is nice, and SCID is nice. But Chess Assistant is light years ahead of those.
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