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Subject: Re: KQ vs kr position

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 17:49:56 08/02/99

Go up one level in this thread


On August 02, 1999 at 20:06:07, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On August 02, 1999 at 18:15:27, Jeff Anderson wrote:
>
>>Could someone with access to the KQ v kr endgame tablebase tell me how many
>>moves before Black mates in this position?
>
>I believe the tablebases are not optimized for finding the shortest mate. For
>instance, in this case, it finds the shortest route to mate OR win the rook.
>After winning the rook, it then finds the shortest mate from there. So it is
>possible the "best" play generated by the table base is not the shortest mate.
>It is also possible for a tablebase, organized differently, can give a solution
>of a different length than another tablebase, though I would not expect that
>here.
>
>So "perfection" is not guaranteed, but it does have the virtue of being optimal
>in the light of the 50 move rule. In other words, it is possible that a position
>is winnable without exceeding the 50 move rule, but the "shortest mate" would
>exceed the 50 move rule. Of course, in that case it would not really be the
>"shortest mate." I would be interested in seeing an example position of this if
>someone has it.
The Nalimov tablebase files have distance to mate.  But as a confirmation, here
is the output of Chest:
Reading job:
W:  Kg2 Rf2 (2)
B:  Kg4 Qa2 (2)
FEN: 8/8/8/8/6k1/8/q4RK1/8 b - -
analysing (mate in 14 moves):
No solution in 14 moves.
refu  1: Qa8+   Kf1    [ 13-]
solu         1: Rf3    [  4+]
solu         2: Kh2    [ 12+]
solu         3: Kg1    [ 10+]
refu  2: Qd5+   Kf1    [ 13-]
solu         4: Rf3    [  4+]
solu         5: Kg1    [  4+]
solu         6: Kh2    [ 13+]
refu  3: Qa3    Kg1    [ 13-]
solu         7: Rd2    [  5+]
solu         8: Rc2    [ 11+]
solu         9: Rf6    [ 12+]
solu        10: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        11: Rf7    [ 13+]
solu        12: Rf1    [  8+]
solu        13: Kh2    [  5+]
solu        14: Rf5    [  6+]
solu        15: Rf3    [  4+]
solu        16: Rf8    [  4+]
solu        17: Re2    [  4+]
refu  4: Qa4    Rd2    [ 13-]
solu        18: Rf6    [ 11+]
solu        19: Rf7    [ 12+]
solu        20: Rf8    [ 13+]
refu  5: Qa5    Re2    [ 13-]
solu        21: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        22: Rc2    [ 12+]
solu        23: Rf6    [ 11+]
solu        24: Rf7    [  7+]
solu        25: Rf1    [  6+]
solu        26: Rf8    [ 13+]
solu        27: Rb2    [ 11+]
solu        28: Rf3    [  4+]
solu        29: Kh2    [ 12+]
solu        30: Rf5    [  4+]
refu  6: Qa6    Rd2    [ 13-]
solu        31: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        32: Re2    [  3+]
refu  7: Qa7    Rc2    [ 13-]
solu        33: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        34: Kg1    [  3+]
refu  8: Qa1    Rf8    [ 13-]
solu        35: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        36: Rf6    [  4+]
solu        37: Rb2    [  3+]
refu  9: Qb3    Kg1    [ 13-]
solu        38: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        39: Rd2    [  5+]
solu        40: Rf6    [ 11+]
solu        41: Rf5    [  5+]
solu        42: Ra2    [  3+]
solu        43: Rf8    [ 13+]
solu        44: Rf1    [  6+]
solu        45: Kh2    [  5+]
solu        46: Rf3    [  4+]
solu        47: Rf7    [  4+]
solu        48: Re2    [  4+]
refu 10: Qc4    Rd2    [ 13-]
solu        49: Rf6    [ 11+]
solu        50: Rf4+   [  3+]
solu        51: Rf5    [  6+]
solu        52: Rf3    [  4+]
solu        53: Rf7    [  4+]
solu        54: Rf1    [  6+]
solu        55: Re2    [  3+]
solu        56: Rc2    [  3+]
solu        57: Ra2    [  3+]
solu        58: Rf8    [ 13+]
refu 11: Qe6    Rd2    [ 13-]
solu        59: Rf4+   [  4+]
refu 12: Qg8    Rd2    [ 13-]
solu        60: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        61: Rf3    [  4+]
refu 13: Qb1    Rf8    [ 13-]
solu        62: Rf4+   [  4+]
solu        63: Rf7    [ 12+]
solu        64: Rf6    [ 11+]
solu        65: Rf5    [  4+]
solu        66: Rc2    [  3+]
solu        67: Ra2    [  3+]
Time (user) = 856.00 sec (ca. 14.3 min)



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